From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #6 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Sunday, January 9 2000 Volume 03 : Number 006 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 03:26:32 EST From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs In a message dated 1/7/2000 9:55:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, MurfNMurf@aol.com writes: << I've read the occasional cryptic mention of here and there on the internet of an Aztec campaign for RQ. Anyone have any more information on this? >> At one time, a long long time ago, when I still worked for Chaosium, Ken St. Andre and another fairly well known writer of the time (but whose name escapes me) were working on an Aztec supplement for RQ, in the same vein as Vikings. Dunno what came of it, or whether someone might be using some parts of it in a campaign. Steve Perrin, who has always been sorry that Katherine Kerr's Celtic supplement never happened. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 11:00:58 +0100 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Cantabrana_Gonz=E1lez?=" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone Wow, but how many people lose their Runic magic to load that rock? Yes, that is good if you find a great number of (fool) people who are ready to do a great effort for some (faith, I suppouse) reason. I probably do not offer my magic in that form, I think in an acolit with 8 Divine point acumulated for 10 years to acces to priesthood who are asked to do it, too hard. Isn't it? German P.E. Thanks for your interest, my friend. - -----Mensaje original----- De: Leon Kirshtein Para: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Fecha: sábado, 08 de enero de 2000 6:14 Asunto: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone > >Yes, I know, then where is the adventaje of a True Stone versus a Spell >Matrix, and why is too high value. I prefer a 5 points Spell Matrix (that I >can protect with conditions and reload after use) than a 10 points True >Stone. > >It is not a matter of preference. Just think about a piece of stone which >may hold 100 pts of Divine Magic. There is really no limit as to how much >it can hold. The only real limitation is how many people can touch it at >the same time. > >I played in one game there we had a Rune Lord not sacrifice for any Divine >magic just so he could carry a blank true stone with out accidentily setting >it. When it was finally filled it had 87pt of magic from 4 different cults. > Match that with a matrix. > >Leon Kirshtein >www.geocities.com/leonbk/ > >"No good deed shall go unpunished." > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 10:20:09 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Wow, and now a Celtic Campaign that doesn't exist either :( -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 10:26:27 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Hey gang, Anyone have any idea just how far along _was_ the Celtic pkg before the plug was pulled? I'm wondering if it was axed in the planning stage, or if she actually did some work on it, and it just wasn't printed ( I hope I hope I hope ). Hey, maybe its the latter, and she has an email address and feels like sharing her info, maybe ? Can't blame a guy for dreaming Your pal, -Ken- ( or Coinneach, as long as we're talking _Celts_ ) Be Fian-valorous in your wounding exploits... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 10:27:44 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Hey again gang, For that matter, does Ken St, Andre has an email address that anyone could share? Your pal, -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 11:41:24 -0500 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Well I have his as korak@aztec.asu.edu for Ken St. ANDRE one of the worlds greatest game designers. Ken not to be confused with great one MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > Hey again gang, > For that matter, does Ken St, Andre has an email address that anyone could > share? > Your pal, > -Ken- > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 11:41:03 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs SPerrin@aol.com wrote: > > At one time, a long long time ago, when I still worked for Chaosium, Ken St. > Andre and another fairly well known writer of the time (but whose name > escapes me) were working on an Aztec supplement for RQ, in the same vein as > Vikings. Dunno what came of it, or whether someone might be using some parts > of it in a campaign. I seem to remember it being either Katherine Kurtz or M.Z. Bradley, but I could be mistaken, given that you mention Katherine Kerr for a Celtic supplement (which would have been almost as nice). I got a lot of mileage out of GURPS Aztecs, and even made some rules for Blood Magic (suitable for Aztecs, Red Vadeli, or the Cthuloid blood cult of you choice) that are on my website. > Steve Perrin, who has always been sorry that Katherine Kerr's Celtic > supplement never happened. How far did it come along, anyway? Does Chaosium have a File Cabinet 23 we should be planning a raid on? (Like the bulk of the notes for the Ringworld: Known Space supplement? ) - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 12:23:12 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs File 23 File Cabinet? Where, where? -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 12:28:19 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Speaking of Ringworld, ( now that I'm wandering Off Topic) how simular is the equipment to the FutureWorld book? Im thinking of 86ing my traveller rules and using BRP -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:13:30 EST From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs In a message dated 1/8/2000 8:47:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, talmeta@cybercomm.net writes: << > Steve Perrin, who has always been sorry that Katherine Kerr's Celtic > supplement never happened. How far did it come along, anyway? Does Chaosium have a File Cabinet 23 we should be planning a raid on? (Like the bulk of the notes for the Ringworld: Known Space supplement? ) >> To the best of my knowledge, most of the writing was just proposal letters (full of fascinating Celtic factoids, though) from Katherine. About that time she discovered that she had a slightly debilitating condition that would keep her energy levels down, and she decided to devote her remaining energies to the more lucrative (and what isn't?) field of novel writing. The Aztec piece, on the other hand, had some actual pages written. Where they are now is an excellent question. This was all just as the Chaosium was being computerized, probably three or more technology leaps ago. Doubt there's an electronic file to be had... Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:56:45 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs SPerrin@aol.com wrote: > > The Aztec piece, on the other hand, had some actual pages written. Where they > are now is an excellent question. This was all just as the Chaosium was being > computerized, probably three or more technology leaps ago. Doubt there's an > electronic file to be had... Hence my comment about a file cabinet.... :)000 - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:05:41 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods >>Why would Orlanth be even remotely interested in such mundaneties?<< I've got to say that this question really blows my mind. I'm very much of the "Faith without works is a dead thing!" school of mortal/divine interraction. If Orlanth (or any other god) does not care what his followers do then why does he bother to grant their requests for Divine Magic or DI for that matter. If the mundane world means so little why bother lending your power to it. Keep all your power and stick with the Godsplane/divine realm. >>I don't imagine Orlanthi pray in this way. Usualy, prayers are in the form of appeals for aid, or preotection from disaster.<< What determines whether Orlanth answers these pleas for aid if not the behaviour of the worshippers? I don't think that just prayer is going to cut it - after all sitting in a temple praying is not the sort of thing that Orlanth would be impressed by. In fact there's an argument that to an orlanthi a battle could constitute a religious experience or prayer. If nothing else it's what Orlanth would want his worshippers to do. >>You make Orlanth sound like a school master in a school for delinquent children. I don't think he gives a toss about these things.<< Again, if he doesn't give a toss why does he bother having a cult and worshippers. Cut 'em loose and stick the Godsplane. By implication, any God who bothers to dole out divine magic has a vested interest in the actions and behaviours of mortals. >>I think that to gain Orlanthi magic you must demonstrate Orlanthi virtues.<< Slaughtering broos isn't an Orlanthi virue??? >>The worshiper's faith is actualy relevent, IMHO. If you have no faith, how can you expect to gain power?<< I agree. but IMHO there's no better way to show faith than works. All mythology is replete with examples of heroes who did stuff because it was the kind of thing that pleased their god(s). Matt, B. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 22:17:22 EST From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods In a message dated 1/9/2000 6:18:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, BarroM@STGEOTCE.training.wa.gov.au writes and I've been staying out of the discussion, but there are a few points... << >>Why would Orlanth be even remotely interested in such mundaneties?<< I've got to say that this question really blows my mind. I'm very much of the "Faith without works is a dead thing!" school of mortal/divine interraction. If Orlanth (or any other god) does not care what his followers do then why does he bother to grant their requests for Divine Magic or DI for that matter. If the mundane world means so little why bother lending your power to it. Keep all your power and stick with the Godsplane/divine realm. >> - -------------- Orlanth is not lending his power to the mundane world. He is fulfilling a promise, which any good leader must do. He got the POW, now he has to pay with services contracted for. Orlanth is not spending any Power at all, he is just doing what he does, expending the equivalent of magic points, if anything. ------------------ >>I don't imagine Orlanthi pray in this way. Usualy, prayers are in the form of appeals for aid, or preotection from disaster.<< What determines whether Orlanth answers these pleas for aid if not the behaviour of the worshippers? I don't think that just prayer is going to cut it - after all sitting in a temple praying is not the sort of thing that Orlanth would be impressed by. In fact there's an argument that to an orlanthi a battle could constitute a religious experience or prayer. If nothing else it's what Orlanth would want his worshippers to do. - ----------------------- The behavior Orlanth is looking for is sacrifice of POW and (depending on your approach to the subject, it has always been a subject of discussion) magic points from his worshippers to maintain his personal power (with a small "p"). If the worshipper is not a sincere worshipper, he cannot get the juice from the worshipper, and doesn't care about the worshipper. A broo-killer who worships the Storm Bull is not doing Orlanth any good. - -------------- >>You make Orlanth sound like a school master in a school for delinquent children. I don't think he gives a toss about these things.<< Again, if he doesn't give a toss why does he bother having a cult and worshippers. Cut 'em loose and stick the Godsplane. By implication, any God who bothers to dole out divine magic has a vested interest in the actions and behaviours of mortals. - ----------- Yes, because that worship keeps him alive. If he didn't pay attention to the cult, his little part of the Godplane would start falling apart. _______ >>I think that to gain Orlanthi magic you must demonstrate Orlanthi virtues.<< Slaughtering broos isn't an Orlanthi virue??? _------------------ As long as you do it in Orlanth's name. But don't bother telling him about it--he knows. - ---------------------------- >>The worshiper's faith is actualy relevent, IMHO. If you have no faith, how can you expect to gain power?<< I agree. but IMHO there's no better way to show faith than works. All mythology is replete with examples of heroes who did stuff because it was the kind of thing that pleased their god(s). - ---------------------------------- Actually, all mythology is replete with examples of heroes who defied the gods. It is part of what made them heroes. Often they ended up doing the god's will anyway, but they showed some independence as well. Often they died for their defiance. Steve Perrin, who does not claim any authority but his own in these ruminations. Orlanth's will and powers may vary... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:11:26 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods >>> 01/10 11:17 am >>> Orlanth is not lending his power to the mundane world. He is fulfilling a promise, which any good leader must do. He got the POW, now he has to pay with services contracted for. Orlanth is not spending any Power at all, he is just doing what he does, expending the equivalent of magic points, if anything. <<< This seems very close to "Orlanth - divine magic mail order company" - just put your sacrifice of POW in your next prayer and divine magic is yours. The notion that Orlanth is just a big divine magic vending machine doesn't work for me. Gods have their own agendas - and I was always under the impression that one of Orlanth's was the destruction of chaos. Of course this could just be my limited Glorantha Lore showing again. >>>The behavior Orlanth is looking for is sacrifice of POW and (depending on your approach to the subject, it has always been a subject of discussion) magic points from his worshippers to maintain his personal power (with a small "p"). If the worshipper is not a sincere worshipper, he cannot get the juice from the worshipper, and doesn't care about the worshipper. A broo-killer who worships the Storm Bull is not doing Orlanth any good.<<< Again - agendas. Is Orlanth interested in driving back chaos or not? If yes then he's gonna want his worshippers slaughtering chaos beasties - ie broos. It advances one of his agendas. Your point about the actions of non Orlanthi feels like a bit of a non sequitor. I was not suggesting that Orlanth backed all actions against chaos. All Orlanthi slaughter broos but not all slaughterers of broos are Orlanthi. >>Again, if he doesn't give a toss why does he bother having a cult and worshippers. Cut 'em loose and stick the Godsplane. By implication, any God who bothers to dole out divine magic has a vested interest in the actions and behaviours of mortals.<< >>>Yes, because that worship keeps him alive. If he didn't pay attention to the cult, his little part of the Godplane would start falling apart.<<< Now we have the notion of worshippers as a POW harvest. Hi I'm Orlanth and you worshippers are the cattle that I feed off. No one's going to worship that!! >>>As long as you do it in Orlanth's name. But don't bother telling him about it--he knows. <<< How does he know? This is one of the questions that I started off with. How much does Orlanth know and to what extent do you (the GM) think that the players can fake it? >>Actually, all mythology is replete with examples of heroes who defied the gods.<< Fair point. I said something similar in a previous post. Generally though it was the "bad" gods that got beaten or duped. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single Greek hero (for example) who defied Zeus - Hades sure but not the big guy. >>Steve Perrin, who does not claim any authority but his own in these ruminations. Orlanth's will and powers may vary...<< This is/has always been all entirely IMHO. It reflects my personal opinions and tastes. I should note - for those of you who haven't figured out yet - that I have a real problem with divinities being used in campaigns like rabbits foots. I think it's a big mistake for players to be allowed to have their characters treat campaign gods the way most modern humans treat RW divinity issues. If in a campaign, the deities are really there, and they really do get involved, at any level, with mortals, then I can't justify ignoring their agendas. I hate the idea that a deity which has deigned to get involved with a mortal would let that mortal take advantage of them or abuse the established relationship. I don't let my friends get away with that kind of crap and I'm so far away from being a divinity it's a joke. Why would a god put up with it?? Just to use 'em for "food". Then why do the mortals get involved?? If it's just a cynical exchange of POW for power then what inspires groups like the Lunars to conquer and convert?? Pascal's wager, and other similar forms of humanist reasoning on the nature of the divine, only works if the existence of the divinity is somehow in doubt. All IMO. Matt B. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #6 *********************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.