From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #8 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Monday, January 10 2000 Volume 03 : Number 008 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods --> Elementals [RQ-RULES] True Stone RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Elementals in Action Re: [RQ-RULES] Those pesky Elementals Re: [RQ-RULES] ( was Divine Magic & the gods ) Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods --> Elementals RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:05:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Graham J Robinson Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, Bob Stancliff wrote: >> Also, does anyone have any elemental vs. elemental combat rules? See >I've often kind of thought that the best way to defeat a salamander would >be with an undine. What do others think? > While it might be appropriate to bend the rules in this case, the normal >combat of an undine is to suffocate a foe, but the salamander's entire >body is generating damage. The salamander would always win unless the >undine would be permitted to 'suffocate' the flames of the salamander. >Just an option... I suspect some variant on the "elemental opposition" theory would work well here. This basically ranks the four "normal" elements into a ring, with each more powerful than the one after it. Thus water beats fire, beats air, beats earth, beats water. Admittedly this feels most right for the example given. I don't want to start talking exact numbers, but I'd rig it so that, for similarly sized elementals, water beats fire everytime. Bonuses to damage caused seem appropriate. This just leaves the problem of fitting darkness, lunar, etc. into the equation... Graham - -- Graham Robinson. Dept. Computing Science, Glasgow. gjr@dcs.gla.ac.uk http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~gjr "I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning." Plato *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:07:36 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods --> Elementals > IMG we play that one point of POW for binding is only good for 20 pt's of Stat, so to bind large spirits, binds must be more expensive, since 2 or 3 POW must be allocated to the largest stat of some spirits and Elementals. We have always play that 1POW is necessary for each characteristic, thus you would need a 4pt binding matrix to hold an elemental (we cound SIZ even though it is expresed in cubic meters) > Also, does anyone have any elemental vs. elemental combat rules? See I've often kind of thought that the best way to defeat a salamander would be with an undine. What do others think? I think I would let them exterminate each other on the hit point basis at a rate of 1hp per 1hp. At the end of the combat between the two I would refigure the survivors size and other stats based on the hit points remaining, with a minimum of 1 cubic meter. Leon Kirshtein www.geocities.com/leonbk/ "No good deed shall go unpunished." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:16:58 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: [RQ-RULES] True Stone >> Under early rules, I believe, a blank Truestone was impressed with spells >>by taking them from the mind of the person(s) who touched it first. These >>spells were stripped from the mind of the person(s), but could be cast >>from the Truestone. Once cast, they were lost, but the stone was now >>impressed with those spells and could be recharged by a priest with those >>spells. The priest would not lose those spells this time, but they would >>not recover until the spells were cast from the stone. In retrospect, I think that possibly the spell knowledge was only stripped from initiates, not priests. The Biturian Varosh story from Cults of Prax gives an example, and also shows the most common use for Truestone... as a means for a priest to send his magic without going himself. Thus, he fulfills his divine role without being physically present. The stone cannot recharge itself, but can be charged by another priest with the same spells from the same source. >So, is very best a Matrix spell with a higher first lost of POW but that >only need a pray to reuse the spell. isn't it? >German Only in a backward fashion. Truestones are usually empty unless the bearer died while questing. They will only be given spells before an important event that is worth the priest losing the use of his magic (possibly forever if the spell is never cast back out). This goes back to the best use of Truestone. They only help priests in temples to avoid dangerous risks. "Let the Rune Lords and Initiates take this stone with our magic to aid them". An adventurer always prefers a matrix if he can get it. >Wow, but how many people lose their Runic magic to load that rock? Yes, that >is good if you find a great number of (fool) people who are ready to do a >great effort for some (faith, I suppouse) reason. I probably do not offer my >magic in that form, I think in an acolit with 8 Divine point acumulated for >10 years to acces to priesthood who are asked to do it, too hard. Isn't it? >German When the rules for Truestone was created, there were no acolytes. You didn't need much divine magic to be a priest, only a POW of 18. You got most of your divine magic after being promoted. Losing all of your spells did not get you reduced to initiate. These are all RQ3 changes where you will also need 10 POW of divine magic to become an acolyte or priest (8 doesn't do it). Even so, to create such a powerful item, some people might give up all of their magic for their cult. They can eventually get it back, and if so, they will be first in line to be reinstated as priests. Also, if an active character is only getting 8 POW in 10 years, he isn't trying. Even a priest should get a POW check every holy day that he casts Worship (doesn't it say that?), and everyone gets a POW check on high holy day. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:17:04 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone From: "Germán Cantabrana González" >Wow, but how many people lose their Runic magic to load that rock? Yes, >that is good if you find a great number of (fool) people who are ready to do a great effort for some (faith, I suppouse) reason. Sacrifice of the glory of god is the basis of most religions. >I probably do not offer my magic in that form, I think in an acolit with 8 Divine point acumulated for 10 years to acces to priesthood who are asked to do it, too hard. Isn't it? Chances are if you had only 8pts of Divine Magic you would not be asked to do this. It is much more important to get someone with a lot more to do it since the effect is limited to only those people who can actually touch the stone. According to RQ3 rules, as far as I know, you do not lose the spell (can repray for it) then you set the stone. I you play that the character does lose it, then I would say he should get special dispensation then attempting to become a priest and not be required to have 10pts of Divine magic. 2pt should do in his case. Leon Kirshtein www.geocities.com/leonbk/ "No good deed shall go unpunished." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:23:13 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods > I suspect some variant on the "elemental opposition" theory would work > well here. This basically ranks the four "normal" elements into a ring, > with each more powerful than the one after it. Thus water beats fire, > beats air, beats earth, beats water. Admittedly this feels most right for > the example given. You can run something like this for a fantasy earth, but it is not Gloranthan. Lodril and most of the others fires were enslaved, Air beat Water and Darkness most of the time, and everyone married Earth. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:25:38 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Elementals in Action Well, someone asked about Elemental-to-Elemental Combat Rules. The now long OOP BRP book _Magic World_ has an interesting take on Elementals: Conjure/ Dismiss Elemental Range 12 meters Duration 10 melee rounds This is the spell for conjuring a specific Elemental as described below. A magician must specify which sort of Elemental he will learn how to conjure. Any Elemental conjured will have 3D6 POW and 3D6 DEX, and 1D6 SIZ per level of the Elemental [ In Magic World, each of these levels cost 1 MP ]. It has no INT and must be directed with the full attention of the magician. All Elementals are affected by magic and are immune to poison. Their hit points equal their SIZ. Aside from these aspects, each type of Elemental has different abilities. Effects of Elementals on One Another Gnome Salamander Sylph Undine Gnome Normal Cbt Mutual Dest No Effect Lvl-vs-Lvl Salamander Mutual Dest No Effect Lvl-vs-Lvl Mutual Dest Sylph No Effect Lvl-vs-Lvl No Effect No Effect Undine Lvl-vs-Lvl Mutual Dest No Effect No Effect No Effect-----------------Elementals have no effect on each other. Mutual Destruction---The two Elementals compare hit points. The one with the fewer hit points is destroyed, the other is reduced to the difference between the hit points. If the Elementals have the same hit points, both are gone. Level vs. Level----------Compare the level of the Elemental to the level of the target Elemental. An attack roll is made using the resistance table. If the attack is successful, the target Elemental is destroyed. Two Elementals automatically attack each other at the same time on the resistance table, which can lead to Mutual Destruction. Normal Combat--------The Elementals attempt to attack and parry one another, just like normal human fighters. Air--------The Sylph A Sylph is a whirlpool of air which will occasionally form into transparent humanoid shape. It can: 1 Carry an object through the air at 6 points of SIZ per level of sylph for 1000 meters in 10 melee rounds. 2 Knock down 3 points of SIZ per level of sylph. 3 Destroy a Salamander by comparing its level against the level of the Salamander on the resistance table and making a successful attack. 4 Ignore damage from physical weapons, even those with Sharpen [ Bladesharp and the like, I guess ] spells. 5 Be added to a missle or thrown weapon to increase the chance of hitting by 5% and ads 1D3 damage per level. 6 Moving without burden at 36 meters per melee round, quadrupled if moving at full speed. 7 Carry messages on scraps of paper up to a kilometer away in 10 melee rounds. Fire------The Salamander A Salamander usually appears as a lizard-like shape of fire. Constantly active, even while being held in place by its summoner, it can: 1 Engulf a single target in flames, doing 1D6 per level of Salamander. Armor and Protection spells protect against this attack. 2 Ignite flammable objects it touches, so they will burn on their own, doing 1D4 flame damage per round in addition to the Salamander's fire damage. 3 Be damaged by physical weapons, but will damage them in turn at 1D6 per level of the Salamander. 4 Absorb flame damage from other sources to heal its wounds. 5 Destroy a Sylph by comparing its level against the Sylph's on the resistance table and making a successful attack. 6 Mutually annihilate the hit points of an Undine or a Gnome until only one survives. 7 Can be added to a metal weapon to do an additional 1D6 damage per level of the Salamander plus the damage of the weapon, consuming the weapon's hit points at the same time, as in 3, above. 8 Move at 24 meters a round, which triples when moving at full speed. Earth---The Gnome The Gnome always forms into a man-like shape. It also can : 1 Hit physically for 1D6 damage per level of Gnome at 25%. 2 Be damaged by physical weapons, but the attacker must make a roll of POWx5 or less on D100 or the weapon takes the same amount of damage back to itself. 3 Find the nearest source of metals or gems specified by the summoner. 4 Destroy an Undine by comparing its level against the Undine's on the resistance table and making a successful attack. 5 Mutually annihilate hit points with a Salamander until one is gone. 6 Move 12 meters a round, which doubles when moving at full speed. Water-The Undine The Undine will manifest as a tower of water and occasionally take the shape of a beautiful human female. It can: 1 Engulf one target to drown it at 1D8 points/melee round. each melee round the target may match POW against the POW of the Undine on the resistance table to get out of it if the character first rolls CONx5 or less on D100 to keep its breath and not be drowned. 2 Be damaged by physical weapons, but will only take half the rolled damage and cannot be impaled. 3 Carry any object or person through the water at 6 points of SIZ per level of undine for a kilometer in 10 melee rounds. 4 Wash away a Gnome by comparing its level against the level of the Gnome on the resistance table and making a successful attack. 5 Mutually destroy a Salamander's hit points ubtil one or the other is destroyed. 6 Be added to a weapon to let it move normally underwater. 7 Move unencumbered 36 meters per melee round in water, and 6 meters on land. The user of this spell may also use it to attempt to Dismiss an Elemental of the type the user knows how to conjure. Again, he must overcome the level of the Elemental with his cast level of Dismiss Elemental on the resistance table [ F'rex: A 5th level elemental is being dismissed by a Dismiss Elemental 3. This gives the dismisser a 40% chance of success on the resistance table ]. Hope this helps. -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:27:47 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Those pesky Elementals Stancliff >Since only a shaman can initiate spirit combat with an elemental, Control >is the hardest way to get one. Agreed. We play that the shaman can force a beaten/Controled spirit/elemental into spirit combat with a character, and if the character succeeds in beating the elemental he could when bind it himself. >Dominate or Command is generally better. We play that you still have to overcome them in POW vs POW roll. You have a free round then they do not retaliate. If you fail, then you have to fight it. With divine summoning the elemntal will usually leave instead of initiating combat. >RQ3 Elementals are very killable unless you have neophyte characters. If they are reasonable in size about 3 to 4 cubic meters. Larger then that may cause problems. Which gets to the original question of this thread on the average size. >They can certainly cause some grief though, and wraiths are just as bad. Ditto. Leon Kirshtein www.geocities.com/leonbk/ "No good deed shall go unpunished." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:31:14 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] ( was Divine Magic & the gods ) I'm _still_ wondering about the volume difference between the small, medium, and large Elementals in RQ2 and RQ3. I'm curious as to just _why_ exactly they were knocked down to their current 1m3, 3m3, and 10m3 sizes for RQ3. Maybe someone from the design team is lurking, and could share the rational behind it. -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:32:42 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods --> Elementals > > IMG we play > that one point of POW for binding is only good for 20 pt's of Stat, so to > bind large spirits, binds must be more expensive, since 2 or 3 POW must be > allocated to the largest stat of some spirits and Elementals. > Leon Kirshtein > We have always play that 1POW is necessary for each characteristic, thus you > would need a 4pt binding matrix to hold an elemental (we cound SIZ even > though it is expresed in cubic meters) This is official, but when the players started to beat 25 and 30 POW spirits, we toughened the rules a little. > I think I would let them exterminate each other on the hit point basis at a > rate of 1hp per 1hp. At the end of the combat between the two I would > refigure the survivors size and other stats based on the hit points > remaining, with a minimum of 1 cubic meter. This is ok, but I would make it faster. I also don't see that all elements have clear oppositions in Glorantha. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #8 *********************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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