From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #10 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, January 13 2000 Volume 03 : Number 010 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementary, my dear Watson! [RQ-RULES] Darksense RE: [RQ-RULES] Darksense Re: [RQ-RULES] Elemental sizes [RQ-RULES] Elementals RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods --> Elementals Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods --> Elementals [RQ-RULES] MERP/Runequest ? [RQ-RULES] Elemental Sizes Re: [RQ-RULES] Elemental Sizes Re: [RQ-RULES] Darksense Re: [RQ-RULES] MERP/Runequest ? RE: [RQ-RULES] MERP/Runequest ? Re: [RQ-RULES] MERP/Runequest ? RE: [RQ-RULES] Of gods and mortals Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 01:00:09 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementary, my dear Watson! Germán Cantabrana González wrote: > > Yes, that is what i mean, so they can carry away a "pasenger" too? (if he is > inmune to fire and cold of course) The subject has never come up, but I probably wouldn't have a problem with it in such a circumstance. > Sorry for my language, sometimes I make mistakes and sometimes I translate > literaly from Spanish translate (is not a words joke) like Shadows instead > Shade. Not a problem. At my best, I can order food and get my face slapped in Spanish, so you're way ahead of me. :) - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:13:01 -0800 From: Brad Furst Subject: [RQ-RULES] Darksense What is the precision of Darksense? Can Darksense distinguish the difference between Kirk Douglas and Burt Lancaster? Annette Bening and Meg Ryan and Nicole Kidman? Alec Baldwin and William Baldwin and Stephen Baldwin? Hervé Villechaize and Linda Hunt? I don't mean this post to be flippant. I am reciting film actors; if you need assistance to identify these, check http://www.imdb.com Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:07:07 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Darksense That's an interesting question. Now that I think about it, I think Uz probably distinguish each other by what they wear, if they are physically similar. Lead rings and studs in the body would also provide distinguishing features that darksense would easily pick out. As to humans, they would use this kind of distinction, if it were available. If someone usually wears ringmail armour and they change to wearing chainmail, they would become virtually unrecognisable to an uz, IMO. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:40:11 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elemental sizes > So, _now_ does anyone know why the difference in the 3 Elemental's > volumes in RQ2 and the 3 Elemental's volumes in RQ3? > -Ken- It has to be game balance... so that you can't attack as many people at once. The old ones were kind of big. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:01:33 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Elementals > I don't have my rules with me at work - I didn't realise that you needed the whole volume of the element present to summon an elemental - as you can tell it hasn't happened in my campaign(s) for some time. Is this right? Do you need 3m3 of fire to summon a 3m3 Salamander? > Matt B. In the back of the Magic Book the answer is YES to Summon, but NO if the creature is coming from a bind. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:11:09 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods --> Elementals >We have always play that 1POW is necessary for each characteristic, thus you >would need a 4pt binding matrix to hold an elemental (we cound SIZ even >though it is expresed in cubic meters) Yes, that's a RQ IV rule: You need 1 POW point for every 20 pt's of stat in every stat the creature have. But I think a elemental have only Str, Pow and Siz so It is a 3 pt binding matrix. Isn't it? - ------------------------------------------------------------------ We also counted hit points as a stat for elementals. That is why a 4pt matrix is required. Leon Kirshtein www.geocities.com/leonbk/ "No good deed shall go unpunished." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:59:18 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods --> Elementals > We also counted hit points as a stat for elementals. That is why a 4pt > matrix is required. > Leon Kirshtein Your choice, but only the first six primary stats are required for consideration. Everything else is a secondary stat. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 2000 17:33:40 +0100 From: Alain RAMEAU Subject: [RQ-RULES] MERP/Runequest ? Did somebody make some conversion between Rolemaster standard system (mainly MERP) and Runequest system (or vice-versa) ? Thanks. Alain. http://www.btinternet.com/~karamo/rq.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:00:09 -0600 From: "Guy Hoyle" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Elemental Sizes On the topic of RQ2 elemental sizes vs RQ3 elemental sizes, Sandy Petersen says: "They were changed so that we could have a cool range of elemental size from 1-meter up to any size we wanted. Before there were only 3 sizes. " Guy Hoyle *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:41:57 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elemental Sizes Well damn, Hoyle! _That's_ the answer I was looking for all along! lol! Now if only I could get a straight-from-the-designer's-mouth concerning the height of those "average" Jolanti in AH's Glorantha Bestiary. Heck, Sandy might know, since his name is featured prominantly on the cover. Sandy, HELP........:) -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:39:14 -0600 From: "Paul Stolar" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Darksense Another way is the way their sonar sounds. I am sure each uz sounds a little different. I also play that trollkin cannot turn theirs off, much like immature kids have trouble controlling their breathing. Uzuz are able to control their sound, so that they can sound like other uz. Paul Stolar paulstolar@sprintmail.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Hibbs, Philip To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 5:07 AM Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Darksense > That's an interesting question. Now that I think about it, I think Uz probably > distinguish each other by what they wear, if they are physically similar. Lead > rings and studs in the body would also provide distinguishing features that > darksense would easily pick out. As to humans, they would use this kind of > distinction, if it were available. If someone usually wears ringmail armour and > they change to wearing chainmail, they would become virtually unrecognisable to > an uz, IMO. > > Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ > Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let > alone those of any organisations, nations, species, > or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:30:35 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] MERP/Runequest ? >>> Alain RAMEAU Did somebody make some conversion between Rolemaster standard system (mainly MERP) and Runequest system (or vice-versa) ?<<< There's one listed on Peter Keels homepage - I reached it through Kim Englund's link list - but it's in German. Matt B. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:53:57 +0100 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Cantabrana_Gonz=E1lez?=" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] MERP/Runequest ? >Did somebody make some conversion between Rolemaster standard system (mainly >MERP) and Runequest system (or vice-versa) ? Yes, but there is two problems. All the rules are in Spanish. Do you speak Spanish? And I don't know where I have it, but give a couple of days and I find it. German *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:18:47 -0500 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] MERP/Runequest ? weren't there rules to convert them in the thieves world supplement that was put out? I will have to check as I have a couple of copies of it around here some where. Ken Germán Cantabrana González wrote: > >Did somebody make some conversion between Rolemaster standard system > (mainly > >MERP) and Runequest system (or vice-versa) ? > > Yes, but there is two problems. All the rules are in Spanish. Do you speak > Spanish? And I don't know where I have it, but give a couple of days and I > find it. > > German > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:07:51 -0500 (EST) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Of gods and mortals I've been away for a few days, so I appologise for posting replies to posts that are now a few days old. Rich Allen : > Back to gods: the day-to-day life of the majority of worshippers is left to >the god's priesthood to deal with, that's what priests are for, after all. I absolutely agree with this. >This doesn't have to mean the god doesn't actually know every detail of his >worshippers life, that's beside the point. But, if a follower of one god >uses a spell granted by that god to harm the god's religion, or aid one of >the god's enemies, then the god should know about it, either "instinctively" >or through contact with the priesthood. Again I agree, but I don't think the gods know or care about the details of day to day life. The Greeks, Mesopotamians and even Jews of the ancient world seemed to believe that the gods were basicaly unconcerned with mortal affairs, unless said affairs happened to impinge on the god's own personal goals and objectives. Greek and Babylonian myth is full of examples where the gods seemingly fail to comprehend, or care about mortal affairs. Just look at Genesis. God ruthlessly manipulates the lives of his chosen people to his ownb ends. The lives of the Patriarchs of Israel are full of personal tragedy as a result. The same is true of Gilgamesh, Jason and everyone involved in the Illiad. >Read just about any greek epic and you'll see the gods >affecting mortal life directly all over the place. This is true, but they do so almost solely for their own purposes. The gods of ancient myth are far from being cosmic poliecemen. The exception to this is the case of serious breach of tabboos. Oedipus, Adonis, and many mythic figures suffer terribly for breaking tabboos. However such retribution often seems more like the cosmos taking revenge on them rather than the concious decisions of the gods. Breaking tabboos is breaking the laws of nature, not just pissing off individual deities. > Just my opinion here, but who the hell wants to model real life?? >Especially real life religion! In fact, if you are allowing the use of >magic as it pertains to religion, then you cannot possibly be modeling real >life, so I think it's a bad idea to even try. If you're an atheist then sure, but the vast majority of people in the world are not atheists and do believe in the power of religion. Some of them also roleplay. Matthew Barron : >I've got to say that this question really blows my mind. I'm very much of >the "Faith without works is a dead thing!" school of mortal/divine >interraction. If Orlanth (or any other god) does not care what his >followers do then why does he bother to grant their requests for Divine >Magic or DI for that matter. If the mundane world means so little why >bother lending your power to it. Keep all your power and stick with the >Godsplane/divine realm. I'm definitely not saying that what people do is irrelevent. It is relevent because it tells us and the gods what that person is like. If a person is a brave and victorious Orlanthi, then his magic is going to be strong. I don't see that prayer is a vehicle for whinging/boasting/complaining to god. My personal reaction to the description of people praying this way is that all of them should get a life. "I did it" - "No, it was me" - "He's a dirty rotten sneak" - "I'm going to set my god on to you." >What determines whether Orlanth answers these pleas for aid if not the >behaviour of the worshippers? I'm sure a nice fat juicy sacrifice helps. >I don't think that just prayer is going to cut it - after all sitting in >a temple praying is not the sort of thing that Orlanth would be impressed >by. In fact there's an argument that to an orlanthi a battle could >constitute a religious experience or prayer. I absolutely agree. However it is possible for someone who has failed in the real world to learn from that failiure and apply the lesson successfuly in the spiritual domain. It's just a lot harder. >Again, if he doesn't give a toss why does he bother having a cult and >worshippers. Cut 'em loose and stick the Godsplane. By implication, >any God who bothers to dole out divine magic has a vested interest in >the actions and behaviours of mortals. Absolutely. I think I wasn't very clear. Bravery is important, but sayng in your prayers how brave you are isn't. Boasting of your victories in front of your peers at big feasts is another thing. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:08:19 -0500 (EST) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Leon Kirshtein : >Simon Hibbs: > >>The worshiper's faith is actualy relevent, IMHO. If you have >>no faith, how can you expect to gain power? > >In this scenario an illuminate would never be able to sacrifice for spells >from multiple, possibly opposing, cults. For example: Chuck is an >illuminate and member of Storm Bull and Krasht. Under your theory none of >his divine magic should function, since he really does not faith in ether >cult. Illuminates are a seperate issue because they are not realy true theists, so the rules for theist beliefs and theist theology do not apply to them in the same way. Illuminates have faith in themselves, or they go mad. Bob puts it very well here : >When Illumination breaks these fundamental preconceptions guilt goes away >and the gods no longer have power over the worshipper, but they cannot >realize or detect that this has happened. It is the sudden loss of a >philosophical foundation that drive so many into some insanity. Matthew Barron : >>>In the case of deities like Orlanth etc., loads of followers. You >>>go awol and Orlanth just hops on the line to all his priests in the >>>area and anti chaos thanes are hunting you down as we speak.<< > >>An illuminate knows that Orlanth cannot do this to them.< >Why not? Illuminates have recieved a mystical revelation. They _know_ (Believe/ Have Faith/Whatever) that the gods have no moral authority over them. In fact they nolonger believe in objective morality at all. Theism is rooted fundamentaly in the belief that the gods are worthy of worship. To an Illuminate, worthiness in that sense is meaningless. >How come Orlanth can't sense this fact? Surely if something this >fundamental changes in his relationship with his worshipper it'd >show in the spirit plane - to a god at least. What worshiper? The worshiper just stepped off the theist axis of reality on to the mystical axis. It's a different axis on the chart of magical power. An axis the conscious, active gods cannot interact with. The gods exist on the mystical axis too, but their powers and abilities work differently according to different rules. >Important side point - isn't Orlanth himself illuminated? Certainly >Yelm is. If Illuminated mortals can sense illumination in others >then couldn't illuminated deities? True, but they can only deal with the mystic in a mystical fashion. Their theist rights and perogatives don't work. It's a complex matter because there are different kinds of mystical enlightenment and theism and they cross over with each other in different ways. Illumination is a particualr kind of mystical trick or insight that allows access to theist magic without having to obey all the theist rules. I'll go back to a question you posed earlier in your post - >>>This works because an illuminate doesn't necesserily see any >>incompatibility between Orlanthi and Vivamorti religious beliefs. >>He is able to justify both to himself without guilt. A non-illuminated >>orlanthi who tried this would wear his guilt like a neon sign (in a >>spiritual sense).<< >Is guilt the prime way that deities judge transgressions? How can someone be judged wrong if they are Not Guilty? (capitalisation deliberate). > ......How does a >deity cope with someone with amoral personality disorder? How does a deity cope with someone who knows that morality is a meaningless concept? > ...A person >whose psyche is dysfunctional can feel no guilt. I gotta believe a >deity can keep better track of their followers than whether or not >they feel guilty. Feeling guilty isn't the whole story. The real question is whether that guilt means anything. How can you be guilty of a crime if there are no laws? What if there are laws, but you discover that they have no moral force? The whole basis of the theist relationship between the god and the worshiper breaks down. Neither theism and mysticism are 'The Whole Truth'. Both philosophies contain valid and powerfull insights into spirituality and the realtionship of mortals to the otherworld and otherworldly powers. Sometimes mystics can comprehend and exploit theist concepts, and sometimes theists can apply mystical insights to their lives. The Lunar religion is a combination of theism and mysticism and so not all the rules of theism and mysticism apply to initiates of Lunar Philosophy - i.e. Illuminates. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #10 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.