From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #11 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Sunday, January 16 2000 Volume 03 : Number 011 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods [RQ-RULES] Chancellor Y's Sorcery [RQ-RULES] Simplifying Success Levels RE: [RQ-RULES] Simplifying Success Levels RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:44:32 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods > >>> In the case of deities like Orlanth etc., loads of > >>> followers. You go awol and Orlanth just hops on > >>> the line to all his priests in the area and anti-chaos > >>> thanes are hunting you down as we speak. > >>An illuminate knows that Orlanth cannot do this to them. > >Why not? As long as you are a normal, loyal Orlanth worshipper, you are subservient to Orlanth's laws. Doing something to break these laws will bring spirits of retribution. In similar fashion, you cannot join a cult that opposes, or is unfriendly to, Orlanth. Orlanth's cult will not permit it, and the other cult will not accept you. The fact that you are an initiate of another god is obvious and testable (Chaos gets some concessions here). Once Illumination releases you from the restraints of natural (or cosmic) law, then those laws cannot convict you and only an eyewitness can accuse you of wrongdoing. > > How come Orlanth can't sense this fact? Surely if > > something this fundamental changes in his relation- > > ship with his worshipper it'd show in the spirit plane > > - to a god at least. It is the nature of these spells and powers to be binary detections... you are chaotic or not, you are enemy or not, you have broken a vow or not. Once Illumination breaks your morals ties to the world, you always test as a member of the 'not' group. The gods will not know you are illuminated, only that you are 'not' the enemy. You do 'not' register as apostate, a law breaker, or an oath breaker. The god must assume that you are in good standing because you are 'not' in violation. It is likely that the gods will eventually discover your illumination, but that will be because of your carelessness. Illumination does not mean that you will, or should, use chaos, only that you can get away with it. > The gods exist on the mystical axis too, but their > powers and abilities work differently according to > different rules. The gods must deal with an illuminate as more of an equal because the individual has found mystic insights that remove their dependence upon the gods. Since the gods still need followers, they must make concessions with illuminates, and hope for trustworthiness. > >>>This works because an illuminate doesn't > >>> necessarily see any incompatibility between > >>> Orlanthi and Vivamorti religious beliefs. I would consider this to be a form of insanity, since use of chaotic magics will still weaken the fabric of the world. Illumination does not change the cosmic laws, it only releases ones' dependence upon them. > >......How does a deity cope with > > someone with amoral personality disorder? This person is already insane, and probably illuminated. If they are obvious about their amoral tendencies, they will probably be hunted down like rabid dogs. Society always tries to defend Civilization from predators. > > I gotta believe a deity can keep better track of > > their followers than whether or not they feel guilty. The compromise gives up this awareness for the sake of the continuance of the world. The gods simply _cannot_ pay attention to events within time until, or unless, they are called to do so. Even then, the gods do not have the omni-presence to know what is happening everywhere at all times. You might not like the concepts of the compromise, but it is fundamental to the myth and magic of Glorantha, and explains why the deeds of mortals determine the fate of the entire world. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:10:13 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods >As long as you are a normal, loyal Orlanth worshipper, >you are subservient to Orlanth's laws. Doing something >to break these laws will bring spirits of retribution. >... >Once Illumination releases you from the restraints of natural >(or cosmic) law, then those laws cannot convict you and only >an eyewitness can accuse you of wrongdoing. I think you're reading more into illumination than it warrants. Illumination is a mystical insight, and mysticism is as valid an approach within the cosmic laws of Glorantha as theism is. What it does do is allow you to sidestep the laws of theism. You realise that the laws are not really cosmic laws at all, and they pretty much cease to apply to you. Illumination is easily mistaken for chaos, because it blurs the boundaries in many peoples' perceptions, and its history is strongly linked to a supposedly chaotic deity. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:49:01 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Bob Stancliff: >The fact that you are an initiate of another god is obvious and testable >(Chaos gets some concessions here).. What do you mean by "Chaos gets some concessions here". Are you saying that there is something besides illumination which can mask chaos. I know that there is Cacodemon spell which can do so but thats for a short time. Leon Kirshtein www.geocities.com/leonbk/ "No good deed shall go unpunished." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:46:27 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods > >Once Illumination releases you from the restraints of natural > >(or cosmic) law, then those laws cannot convict you and only > >an eyewitness can accuse you of wrongdoing. > I think you're reading more into illumination than it warrants. Illumination is > a mystical insight, and mysticism is as valid an approach within the cosmic > laws of Glorantha as theism is. What it does do is allow you to sidestep the > laws of theism. You realise that the laws are not really cosmic laws at all, > and they pretty much cease to apply to you. Illumination serves a dual purpose: it provides insight about yourself and your obligations to the cosmos, or the gods, but it is more importantly a transformation of your mind to a different set of cosmic laws. I might have implied that it breaks all cosmic laws, but I meant that you are released from the cultural mindset of your birth and the cosmic laws that bear upon it, and you are now accountable to a new set of rules. The cosmic laws still exist (spirit, deist, sorcerous), but you are ruled by a new and different set than before, which as you point out, is a mystic set of laws. Only mystic awareness allows a person to transcend the physical world and their cultural constraints to interact with the cosmic forces with some measure of equality. When this mystic awareness is applied to the physical world, and interpreted through the perceptions of one culture and magic form, a person can become a hero and eventually a god. Some form of mystic illumination is required before beginning to walk the road from hero to godhood. That is one reason GM's were told not to allow illuminates unless they wanted to deal with this aspect of Glorantha. If instead, the mystic awareness is pursued for it's own sake, and ties to the physical world are gradually broken, a state I believe they call Transcendence can be achieved. Throw away your character sheet, you've just left the game. I am not convinced that we need rules for this since it divorces a character from the events in the game. Just roll a new character who _will_ be interested in changing the world. {begin rambling} The three normal forms of magic can all provide paths to greatness, and with some minor changes and an assumption of mutual exclusion, they are very well balanced. The greatest limit of the three forms is that they are all tied to the physical world. Some extra power can be gained from the god plane, but each person is still controlled by their culture, assumptions, and taboos. The vast majority of Gloranthans are in this condition. As the rules are currently written, even more physical power can be achieved by combining the magics of the three forms. Heroic individuals can be created within the world who can take and deliver amazing damage and perform other wondrous feats through the teamwork of magical sources, but they are still limited by the nature of the world itself. These are the elite of the world under the RQ rules, because the RQ rules were never expanded to encompass the mythic concepts, powers, and HQ abilities. Therefor RQ cannot currently encompass the Heroes and Demigods innate to Glorantha. GM's have to improvise anything done in this area of play. Some would say that RQ can't ever be expanded to encompass Glorantha and that Hero Wars is needed. It is clear that as most people tried to apply RQ to HQ's, the game changed from a world of rules to a world of concepts. What has been missing is a framework for interacting with the god plane and changing it. HW may succeed at presenting this framework, or we may simply end up with a simpler game for representing Glorantha which does not add much improvement. I only consider a simpler game to be an improvement in the marketing sense. Wargamers generally prefer the simulation methods used by RQ. In a fanzine article several years ago Greg admitted that he might not ever be able to present the myth matrix as a dynamic and changing pattern without computer modeling to adjust and present the changed myths. I have to agree, since without the ability of GM's and players to change the god plane, HQ's have few repercussions. How this modeling can be achieved is a very deep study which would drastically change the nature of the game. It would be very interesting to see the work done in this direction. Many related aspects had to be addressed to write the King of Dragon Pass game, but I don't think they tried to change myth, only apply it. Since I'm spinning wheels, I'll quit. {end rambling} Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:56:46 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods > >The fact that you are an initiate of another god is obvious and testable > >(Chaos gets some concessions here).. > What do you mean by "Chaos gets some concessions here". Are you saying that > there is something besides illumination which can mask chaos. > I know that there is Cacodemon spell which can do so but thats for a short > time. > Leon Kirshtein True, but it is still a powerful spell, and can be extended if it's temporal. I need to read the cult description again... aren't they permitted to lie their way into other cults, or was illumination required? There is also some magic for hiding chaos ties under Kerjalk in Cults of Terror. I would want to check Krarsht just to make sure, and of course, Lanbril, which is not chaos, has a spell to hide criminal activity. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:03:02 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Many thanks to Bob Stancliff. Your explanation of the compromise has helped clarify an important issue for me - the gods of Glorantha aren't distant because they have to be their distant from the mortal realm because they have chosen to be. That makes more sense. Thanks Matt B. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:02:17 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] Chancellor Y's Sorcery While writing up the high priest of a sorcery cult one of my players is joining, I came up the following spells from his personal spellbook... Y'S RETREAT Ranged, Maintained By use of this spell, the caster and a number of other people (equal to half the levels of Multispell employed) are whisked outside of time to a misty white realm. While this spell is Maintained, those within that place can heal, recover magic points, etc. at a normal pace. The total area of the misty realm is a circle 1 meter in diameter for every level of Range employed. For those outside the spell effect, however, no time passes whatsoever. Those inside the spell resume their former positions, whatever they might have been, when the spell duration ends. Y'S VOICE OF CONFUSION Attack, Ranged, Maintained A target affected by this spell has both his comprehension and ability to communicate verbally confounded by this spell. For every level of Intensity, the target loses 10% from his all of his Speak Languages skills. [Example: Fred Parker, with a Speak Bakluni of 50% and a Speak Common of 75% is affected by a YVoC Intensity 6 - until the spell is dispelled or allowed to lapse, he cannot understand or make himself understood in Bakluni, but can Speak (and understand) Common at an effective 15%.] - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:10:40 +0800 From: GAZZA Subject: [RQ-RULES] Simplifying Success Levels Greetings! I've just joined the list, so I hope everything I'm about to post is somewhat on topic. I've recently started a new RQ campaign, with players utterly unfamiliar with the mechanics of Basic Role Playing, and I've found that their biggest stumbling block was calculating Special and Critical chances on the fly. So I came up with this system to make it easier. Every time a skill test is made, a d20 is rolled along with the d100. If the skill roll succeeds, and the d20 comes up a 1, then it's a critical success. If the skill roll succeeds, and the d20 comes up a 1-4, then it's a special success. If the skill roll fails, and the d20 comes up 20, then it's a fumble. Statistically this is exactly the same, but I've found it makes things a lot easier. There's a wrinkle to deal with skills over 100%. If the skill is over 100%, then a roll of 1 on the d20 (REGARDLESS of the d100 result) is a critical success, and a roll of 1-4 on the d20 (REGARDLESS of the d100 result) is a special success. Otherwise, if the d100 roll is equal to or less than the skill minus 100%, and the d20 is a 5, it is a critical success (with a d20 roll of 5-8 being a special success). A roll of 96-100 (normally an automatic failure) is only a failure if the d20 does not otherwise indicate a critical or special; that is, if the d20 roll 5-20. EXAMPLE: One of the PCs in my campaign has 96% Greatsword attack. If he casts Fanaticism, he's up to 144%. This means that a roll of 1 on the d20 is automatically a critical, and a roll of 1-4 is automatically a special. Otherwise, if he rolls 01-44 on the d100, then a roll of 5 on the d20 is a critical and a roll of 5-8 is a special. He only fails if he rolls 96-100 on the d100 and 5-20 on the d20. What this works out to is that the chance to automatically fail is reduced to only 4% for a skill over 100% (rather than 5%). I rule that skills over 100% don't fumble. It can be extended to skills over 200% (a roll of 1 or 5 on the d20 is a critical; a roll of 1-8 is a special; otherwise, a roll of 9 is a critical if the d100 roll is under the skill minus 200, and a roll of 9-12 is a special. Only fail on a 96-100 plus a roll of 9-20 on the d20) or above. - -- GAZZA "To know others is wisdom. To know one's self is enlightenment." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:10:16 -0700 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Simplifying Success Levels > I've recently started a new RQ campaign, with players utterly > unfamiliar with the mechanics of Basic Role Playing, and I've > found that their biggest stumbling block was calculating Special > and Critical chances on the fly. So I came up with this system > to make it easier. What I did was to add two more slots next to each skill on my version of the RQ character sheet. Looks something like this: Skill % Sp Cr ______________ ___ ___ ___ ______________ ___ ___ ___ Whenever a skill% is changed the player re-calculates the special and critical target numbers and fills in the slots. Just takes a glance at the sheet to see if you specialed, etc. Fumbles are normally 00 for the skills used most, and if not it's really easy to look it up on the Skill Result Table. In fact, before I modified the sheet we just had a small, expanded version of this table printed out for each player. Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #11 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.