From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #30 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, March 29 2000 Volume 03 : Number 030 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Removing One-Use Spells. Has anyone tried... Re: [RQ-RULES] CRANKY Review of Hero Wars Re: [RQ-RULES] Removing One-Use Spells. Has anyone tried... [RQ-RULES] CRANKY Review of Hero Wars [RQ-RULES] Review of Hero Wars and Electronic Sheet [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #29 [RQ-RULES] HW RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:33:41 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Removing One-Use Spells. Has anyone tried... Michael Cule wrote: > > Has anyone here had experience with either of these? Has anyone tried > using BOTH where Initiates have a pool that can only be renewed at HHD? I usually award the Runepower to Rune Lords (and some priests). I also permit divine magic to be recovered on holidays (not necessarily the High Holy Day - though the points regained then are higher than on other dates). Not too great a problem thusfar - only half of the characters are initiates, and most of them are running pretty low on divine magic... - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:41:37 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] CRANKY Review of Hero Wars In a message dated 3/29/00 9:35:06 AM Central Standard Time, pmaranci@shell1.tiac.net writes: << Ob RQ reference -- looks to me like conversions are going to be a bitch. Anyone tried that yet? -->Pete >> What do you _mean_ anyone tried that yet? Is this thing even out of Issarries' hands, and on the market yet? -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:49:43 -0600 From: Jim Gould Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Removing One-Use Spells. Has anyone tried... At 05:20 PM 3/29/00 +0100, you wrote: >I'm starting a new Gloranthan game next week with a group of RQ virgins. >(This is a fantastic opportunity!) And I'm thinking which rules-variants >to use. I've looked at the articles in ToTRM 12 about first of all >allowing a pool of Divine Magic (the Runepower option) and secondly >allowing initiates to have Divine spells that can only be renewed at >High Holy Day. > >Has anyone here had experience with either of these? Has anyone tried >using BOTH where Initiates have a pool that can only be renewed at HHD? I've been using the renewable-on-HHD variant. It seems to work quite well, as there is a fair amount of DM used that probably wouldn't be otherwise, with people saving up to be priest/acolytes. Adds a bit more flavor, IMHO. I also allow one 1-point spell as renewable for initiates. - -- "Dammit" Jim Gould jgould@io.com http://www.io.com/~jgould http://www.britanniamanor.org "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:58:44 -0500 (EST) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] CRANKY Review of Hero Wars Peter Maranci >> "Your hated emeny enters the bar, the man who killed your parents. >> Roll your 'Vengeful' to see if you reflexively react, but you may >> use your 'self-control' ability to stop yourself." > >To me, that kind of sucks the juice out of the roleplaying experience. >See, I'd rather go through that conflict *internally*, instead of >rolling some plastic. And you still can. Nobody is forcing you to generate a Hero Wars character with personality traits. However if you want to play such a character, you can. The best of both worlds IMO. Sure, some of the templates have personality traits, but you don't have to even use templates, let alone those specific ones. I also have some reservations about Hero wars. Overall I think it's a nice system, but it's certainly not perfect. Your post wound me up not because you had criticisms of Hero wars, but because those criticisms are largely either rubbish or so pejoratively phrased as to badly obscure the real issues. Is Hero Wars realy a game where GMs are forced into micromanaging the game and bullying players? Do the characters all have to be totaly controlled by an array of personality traits? Do you have to write an essay to generate a character? Anyone not knowing about Hero wars themselves could easily come to the conclusion that this is what HW is like. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:56:18 +0100 From: Philippe Krait Subject: [RQ-RULES] Review of Hero Wars and Electronic Sheet Peter Maranci wrote: > > Over time, I think Glorantha has become less and less friendly to > > newcomers. Maybe it's the result of spending years and years > > debating successively more obscure points in the Cult of Greg, but > > the long time members of the club tend toward impatience > > newcomers. > > I 100% agree. Glorantha was a wonderful setting, and I still use it and > evangelize it when I can, but the trend of the past ten years has been > towards ever more useless debates over how many angels can dance on the > head of Greg's pencil. Plus a few charming fellows who seem to have made > it their life goal to insult anyone who dares disagree with them. That's > why I dropped off the Gloranthan list years ago. As did most of the > RQers I know. THEY didn't give up on Glorantha -- the Gloranthan > "scholarship" community moved away from *them*. I personnally believe that this is the worst point of all. Even in the beginning, explaining Glorantha to beginners was extremely complicated because of the world views and philosophical underlying explications. I belive that now, due to the extremely detailed and original additions to the model, it has become even more complicated. And, what is worse, you now _have_ > > * "Grawe, Philipp" wrote: > > I'm getting firey here, and it's not a flame, don't take it that > > way, but are you honestly telling me that if I give you a blank > > sheet of paper and ask you to design a character, the best you can > > do is come up with Fighter, Magic User, Thief. > > No flame taken. > > No, of course I can come up with more. The only time I've played a flat > character type was to mock players who didn't seem able to cope with the > idea of more than two dimensions. But the whole keyword concept > *encourages* narrower character definition. Instead of being a > collection of abilities and skills, plop! you're a Mage! or whatever. > Good roleplayers will transcend this, bad ones will wallow in it. But in > RQ, it was much harder for a player to play a flat "class". And in > truth, I suspect that when I first came over to RQ from AD&D, the skill > system and lack of classes helped teach me to be a better roleplayer -- > by not allowing me that crutch. Extending that argument further (perhaps > too far), had I not made the leap from wargame-style roleplaying into > more complex characterizations, I might well have not continued to game > for as long as I have. There's a limit to how how many times you can > slay a monster or pick a pocket, after all. > > > To me, it looks like Hero Wars finally frees Glorantha from the > > Runequest system. Have you got any idea how long some of us have > > been waiting for that ? > > No. I hadn't realized that RQ was so onerous. But I can't say that Hero > Wars seems like a decent roleplaying system on any terms, much less > compared to RQ. > > Still more to come... > > -->Pete > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Peter Maranci pmaranci@tiac.net Malden, MA > Pete's RuneQuest Page! Fantasy roleplaying adventures, an online game, > art, character sheets, & more: http://www.tiac.net/users/maranci/rq.htm > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:20:26 +0100 > From: Michael Cule > Subject: [RQ-RULES] Removing One-Use Spells. Has anyone tried... > > I'm starting a new Gloranthan game next week with a group of RQ virgins. > (This is a fantastic opportunity!) And I'm thinking which rules-variants > to use. I've looked at the articles in ToTRM 12 about first of all > allowing a pool of Divine Magic (the Runepower option) and secondly > allowing initiates to have Divine spells that can only be renewed at > High Holy Day. > > Has anyone here had experience with either of these? Has anyone tried > using BOTH where Initiates have a pool that can only be renewed at HHD? > - -- > Michael Cule > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:26:22 -0600 > From: Steve Lieb > Subject: [RQ-RULES] constructive comments > > > You tell me - is there really such a HUGE difference > > between an 87% chance to succeed and an 88%? > > I will merely note that in *my* post, I used 86% and 87%... (I'll give > you partial credit. ) > > [REPLY] I find that almost creepy - I hadn't read yours yet.... > > [snip a bunch of good points] > > 1) I first heard about fate points in Top Secret, where they were almost > required to prevent the "flunky shoots secret agent hero to cause > anticlimactic premature death in adventure" > > 2) as far as the combat mechanic in HW goes, I'm not sure if this addresses > your point, but to apply it to RQ would speed up RQ combats severely: I > suggested a while back on the HW digest that maybe a better mechanic for > resolving COMBAT was a multi (8)?-place vertical table where each combatant > starts at healthy (at the top), and each "round" is a simple contest. For a > marginal success/failure, your position on the table goes up/down 1 space > (respectively). For major it's two spaces, for critical 3. Reach space -6 > (for example, this would have to be tweaked i think) and you are > unconscious. Reach space -8 and you're dead. Something like that. > Obviously if you are at the top and succeed, you don't "get" anything for > winning, aside from watching your opponent drop that amount. > > I dunno. It would have to be played out. I can see different creatures > having their own table based on toughness, for example. A trollkin might be > history at -4, a dragon at -30 or some ridiculous number. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ > > End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #29 > ************************************ > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of > previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in > this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to > copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive > unchanged for electronic retrieval. - -- Philippe Krait philippe.krait@uk.airsysatm.thomson-csf.com philippe@pkrait.freeserve.co.uk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:05:14 +0100 From: Philippe Krait Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #29 Peter Maranci wrote : > * "Timothy Byrd" wrote: > > Over time, I think Glorantha has become less and less friendly to > > newcomers. Maybe it's the result of spending years and years > > debating successively more obscure points in the Cult of Greg, but > > the long time members of the club tend toward impatience > > newcomers. > > I 100% agree. Glorantha was a wonderful setting, and I still use it and > evangelize it when I can, but the trend of the past ten years has been > towards ever more useless debates over how many angels can dance on the > head of Greg's pencil. Plus a few charming fellows who seem to have made > it their life goal to insult anyone who dares disagree with them. That's > why I dropped off the Gloranthan list years ago. As did most of the > RQers I know. THEY didn't give up on Glorantha -- the Gloranthan > "scholarship" community moved away from *them*. I personnally believe that this is the worst point of all. Even in the beginning, explaining Glorantha to beginners was extremely complicated because of the world views and philosophical underlying explications. I believe that now, due to the extremely detailed and original additions to the model (possibly improvement by themselves, although to me it is now too much, and I like Glorantha quite a lot), it has become even more complicated. And, what is worse, you now _have_ to go through it, and in great detail, as the character generation is now completely linked with a world that you have to understand too avoid inconsistency. At least, with RQ, you had the capability of falling down to general rules helping you create simple characters whose understanding of the world and consistency with it could grow over the course of playing. I'm not too sure, but I believe that this option has been taken out of Hero Wars, as the integration into very complex societies and culture is now absolutely mandatory to start playing. - ---------------------------------- Anyway, this is supposed to be a RQ list, which I've only joined recently. But I've seen a few posts on electronic sheet and I've got one under excel which is not too bad as it allows storing of characteristics as well as nice printouts. It is based on an amended RQ III + IV rules that I've been using for a PBEM in french which has unfortunately fallen apart due to lack of volume. I can send it to anyone who is interested, and comments are more than welcome. Philippe *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:19:18 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [RQ-RULES] HW > >A d20 system. Oh boy. Now *that's a leap forward... > > So they should have invented a new kind of dice? Would you prefer D1000? Great googly moogly!! I'm agreeing with Mr. Hibbs on a HeroWars related issue! RQ2 used d20, and RQ2 is supposed to be the One True RQ, after all... > >Character creation -- a hundred-word essay? > > That's one of the three character creation systems. And it's not really that much of a shock. I used that method for a GURPS campaign. The idea is that the system is not the reality, the system is merely a model for the reality. The premise being that one oughtn't distort the underlying setting for the sake of fitting into a system. I will wait and see if Issaries has managed to avoide this or if the current incarnation has been distorted to fit HW as much as it was distorted to fit RQ. > >Keywords -- "a quick description of the character's role in > >society". Like Fighter. Magic-User. Thief. Wow. Can I have > >a duel-keyword half-elf Fighter/Magic-User? > > Not quite... More like: Gotham City's Premiere Crimefighter and Number One Rich Socialite? After all, that is how one fictional character fits into his society... > > >Skills: Let me see if I have this straight. Numbers represent skill > >levels but the Mastery rune modifies this somehow? > > Okay, I'll give you that one, the skill notation is a little abstruse, but it's > ok when you get to know it, it doesn't take long. 1w=21 1ww=41? 1www=61? Or is it 1w=21 1ww=401 1www=8001? > >Looks like unlike RuneQuest, in Hero Wars characters have > >limited skill sets -- not all will possess all abilities, unless > >there's an unstated base chance for success for non-keyword skills. > > HW has an unlimited skill list. A skill can be anything you want that the > referee allows. Overly general skills will suffer an improv penalty when used, This is a fancy-pants way of saying "wing that mutha". > >Personality Traits -- "there will be occasions when the > >narrator will ask you to roll a personality trait directly". That's > >why it's called roleplaying -- die rolls, so you don't have to! > > "Your hated emeny enters the bar, the man who killed your parents. Roll your > 'Vengeful' to see if you reflexively react, but you may use your 'self-control' > ability to stop yourself." This is one thing I disliked about Vampire, about Pendragon, and about most such games--mandatory personality traits. I prefer games that make them options (disadvantages/advantages) rather than presuming that all characters will have such difficulties. I also prefer bourbon to wine. > >Dependants -- "Dependents never raise their abilities; they are > >always meant to be frail". You no longer need worry about those > > This refers to kid brothers, and folks like that, not enemy bad guys. Likewise, nothing new--it's a literary convention. No matter how competent Mary Jane gets, she still gets into stupid danger. > Yeh ... what *really* PISSES me off is Robin Laws' parallel between RPGs > and TV. I mean, I haven't watched TV for about 15 years because I hate it > so much, and new Glorantha is supposed to be run like Star Drek TNG ??!! No, it's supposed to run like Xena: Warrior Princess. Remember that this is the Gloranthan game meant to do Glorantha like Greggathoth does Glorantha. His tastes run towards the Cradle event, not "a duck, a trollkin, two Orlanthi, and a very confused praxian walk into a bar looking for a guard job". The little folk details of Glorantha tended to come from those other than Greggathoth > But the thing that I REALLY REALLY LOATHE is that every > conflict HAS to be binary. The Good Guys vs. the Bad Guys. HW is explicitly designed to model the "mythic" Glorantha. Shades of grey are rare in epic myths. > Glorantha has become less and less friendly to newcomers. Maybe it's > the result of spending years and years debating successively more > obscure points in the Cult of Greg, but the long time members of the Leave the Cult of Greg, for it has become the cult of Greggathoth, whom even the Greg cannot control! Embrace the True One: Enter the Cult of MGF! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #30 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.