From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #32 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, March 29 2000 Volume 03 : Number 032 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Disingenuousity Primer 101 [RQ-RULES] GM fiat Re: [RQ-RULES] HW RE: [RQ-RULES] HW RE: [RQ-RULES] HW Re: [RQ-RULES] Removing One-Use Spells. Has anyone tried... Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #29 Re: [RQ-RULES] Variant Divine Magic Rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Removing One-Use Spells. Has anyone tried... [RQ-RULES] Yet More HW Conversion... RE: [RQ-RULES] CRANKY Review of Hero Wars Re: [RQ-RULES] GM fiat RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:06:09 -0800 From: "Timothy Byrd" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Disingenuousity Primer 101 Peter Maranci wrote: > On a more personal note, I always used to hate it when my old D&D GM > would remove character treasure by fiat. "Whoops, you must have thrown > your new magic sword into the sewer ... given it to the King ... > whatever. Ha ha!" What if at the end of the session the *DM* (remember in D&D it's a *Dungeon*Master - gotta watch that jargon ) said "That was awesome! Worth a level gain. Peter, to keep things fair you can either keep your new sword or gain a level, take your pick." How would you resond to that? You haven't responded to my other comments about the experience points/hero points. I still think they are a workable mechanic for RQ. - -- Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:40:17 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: [RQ-RULES] GM fiat >> Peter Maranci wrote: >> On a more personal note, I always used to hate it when >> my old D&D GM would remove character treasure by fiat. >> "Whoops, you must have thrown your new magic sword into >> the sewer ... given it to the King ... whatever. Ha ha!" >-- Tim > What if at the end of the session the *DM* said "That was > awesome! Worth a level gain. Peter, to keep things fair > you can either keep your new sword or gain a level, take > your pick." How would you respond to that? In either situation, most players would consider telling him where to stick that sword. It is an understood concept in most fantasy games that anything you capture can be kept or sold. the ref who just says "Oh, you don't have that anymore" without a player having a chance to prevent it has stopped playing an interactive game, and deserves to be playing solo. If he says "You can have this sword or a level" he is trying to manipulate the player, who has earned the level, into giving it up for better magic. This is insulting to the player because if he wasn't going to give away the sword, he never should have made it available in the treasure. There is some shock value in starting a session with the line "Your inn was raided in the night and you only had time to grab four items before trying to escape. Everything left behind has been seized and you have been in hiding for two days now." Possessive players and most power-gamers would bitch and moan, but many others would rise to the challenge. No one would appreciated not having the chance to recover their possessions, and if you never gave them back, you deserve to lose your group. Basically players play to feel good, not maliciously tortured. Someone might die on occasion, but the purpose of the game is for the players to win. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:50:36 -0500 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] HW what did rune quest use a d 20 for? that is what I am currently running, and we use percentile dice and a few d 4 6, 8 , and 10 but no d 20 Ken bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: > > >A d20 system. Oh boy. Now *that's a leap forward... > > > > So they should have invented a new kind of dice? Would you prefer D1000? > > Great googly moogly!! I'm agreeing with Mr. Hibbs on a HeroWars related > issue! RQ2 used d20, and RQ2 is supposed to be the One True RQ, after all... > > > >Character creation -- a hundred-word essay? > > > > That's one of the three character creation systems. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:54:54 -0500 From: "Fiorito, David" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] HW Hit location. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch [SMTP:kruch@pinn.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 3:51 PM > To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com > Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] HW > > what did rune quest use a d 20 for? that is what I am currently running, > and we use > percentile dice and a few d 4 6, 8 , and 10 but no d 20 > Ken > > > bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: > > > > >A d20 system. Oh boy. Now *that's a leap forward... > > > > > > So they should have invented a new kind of dice? Would you prefer > D1000? > > > > Great googly moogly!! I'm agreeing with Mr. Hibbs on a HeroWars related > > issue! RQ2 used d20, and RQ2 is supposed to be the One True RQ, after > all... > > > > > >Character creation -- a hundred-word essay? > > > > > > That's one of the three character creation systems. > > > > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:02:32 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] HW >what did rune quest use a d 20 for? that is what I am currently >running, and we use >percentile dice and a few d 4 6, 8 , and 10 but no d 20 >Ken Hmm, As I recall, ver 1 and ver 2 were %-based with experience gains of 5% each, so they could have been played with a d20, but it was expected to use d100. >> RQ2 used d20, and RQ2 is supposed to be the One True >> RQ, after all... So this comment would be mistaken. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:32:01 +0100 From: Michael Cule Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Removing One-Use Spells. Has anyone tried... In message <3.0.6.32.20000329104943.0086e100@mail.io.com>, Jim Gould writes >I also allow one 1-point spell as renewable for initiates. Sorry? What do you mean by that? - -- Michael Cule *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:32:59 +0100 From: Michael Cule Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #29 In message <38E237CA.8EA549B5@uk.airsysatm.thomson-csf.com>, Philippe Krait writes >Anyway, this is supposed to be a RQ list, which I've only joined >recently. But I've seen a few posts on electronic sheet and I've got one >under excel which is not too bad as it allows storing of characteristics >as well as nice printouts. It is based on an amended RQ III + IV rules >that I've been using for a PBEM in french which has unfortunately fallen >apart due to lack of volume. I can send it to anyone who is interested, >and comments are more than welcome. Please! - -- Michael Cule *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:39:11 +0100 From: Michael Cule Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Variant Divine Magic Rules In message , bjm10@cornell.edu writes >Initiates: Renew all Divine Magic on annual High Holy day. >Acolytes: Renew all Divine Magic on seasonal High Holy day. >Priests/Lords: Renew all Divine Magic as normal. OOOK! That's good. I'll use that. I was thinking of requiring a Ceremony roll to recharge your Divine Magic Pool. Comments? - -- Michael Cule *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:20:43 -0600 From: Jim Gould Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Removing One-Use Spells. Has anyone tried... At 10:32 PM 3/29/00 +0100, you wrote: >In message <3.0.6.32.20000329104943.0086e100@mail.io.com>, Jim Gould > writes >>I also allow one 1-point spell as renewable for initiates. > >Sorry? What do you mean by that? I let anyone who has been an initate of a cult for more than one year sacrifice for a single 1-point cult-specific spell that is treated as reusable. It allows initates to have one DM spell they can use relatively freely. I'm running a game-style that encourages lots of magic use, and I wanted the theistic types to have something to do other than the bog-standard spirit spells. This seems to have achieved that aim without unduly devaluating acolyte/priest status. I think I'll be adopting the acolytes-get-DM-on-seasonal-HHD as well, although the campaign has progressed to the point that almost all the PC's are Rune-level or equivalent anyway. - -- "Dammit" Jim Gould jgould@io.com http://www.io.com/~jgould http://www.britanniamanor.org Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:18:50 +0100 From: "Ashley Munday" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Yet More HW Conversion... Bob made some comments about HW/RQ conversion: "Armor, protective magics, average damage from the primary weapon, all weapon magics, and all applicable stat modifying spells should add about 1/2 of the effect to all appropriate skills." Armour and weapons are [HW Term Bollocks Alert] Edges or Handicaps - which modify the effective action points bid in a challenge. Now conversion needed, just look up the comparable weapons and armour in HW. "A major issue in my game is that all of the divine initiates have more spirit magic than most Daka Fal worshippers." The idea in HW is that only Animists have "spirit" magic. What your adventurers have called "spirit" magic is just using Theistic magic in a cunning disguise. After all, it was a priest that summoned the spell spirit to teach the Adventurer. "and within RQ, anyone can [...] make deals with shamans." And, in HW there's no reason why they still can't. They can wander up to the local shaman and ask for a Fetish. When the referee gets over making jokes about whips, chains, spanking, stockings and blanchmange the Shaman (at referee's discretion with appropriate greasing with hero points) might even oblige. As an example of how we went about a conversion: One of my wife's characters is Aileena, an Esrolan Priestess of Ernalda with no real physical skills but with loads of communication, knowledge and magic skills. Attribute wise she's bad physically, but has a high INT and POW. Character wise she's single minded and gender intolerant. 1. We made her a Devotee of Ernalda hacking a couple of affinities from the Heortling Healer apect and another couple from the Leader aspect (so we didn't distort the two functions the character performed in the group) with all the Feats from these affinities. 2. Her communication skills were translated to Inspire Women, Fiery Oratory, Initimidate Men, Inspire Loyalty and Convince. These were based on what she usually used her RQ Oratory and Fast Talk for. Her knowledge skills were translated to Esrolian Society, Heortling Society, Lunar Provinces (big Human Lore and covers where she's travelled - names not inspired, sorry!), Common Medical Plants (biggest use of Plant Lore), Bandaging and Suture Wounds (decent First Aid). She had other RQ skills, but weren't the sort of things she used that regularly. 3. Magic items: Her bound spirits and the ilk were largely junked, with a few exceptions. One POW spirit binding enchantment is usually used to power Heal and Heal Wounds so it became an item which gives her Heal Anything. Her Allied spirit (the spirit Of her mother) becomes an Earth Power spirit which can augment (add action points) to anything she attempts with a target number. 4. She had a couple of other things which seemed appropriate: Attracts Pigs (started as a joke many moons back in Balazaaring citadel), Demands Male Deference (she's finally worked out she's not in Esrolia any more so it's relatively low) and Bloodyminded. Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:30:04 +1000 From: "Grawe, Philipp" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] CRANKY Review of Hero Wars > * "Grawe, Philipp" wrote: > > I'm getting firey here, and it's not a flame, don't take it that > > way, but are you honestly telling me that if I give you a blank > > sheet of paper and ask you to design a character, the best you can > > do is come up with Fighter, Magic User, Thief. > No, of course I can come up with more. The only time I've played a flat > character type was to mock players who didn't seem able to cope with the > idea of more than two dimensions. But the whole keyword concept > *encourages* narrower character definition. Instead of being a I guess what I was getting at is that we found the fairly strict definition of what skills are available to be constricting in Runequest - it is still quite difficult in RQ3 to get out of the range of classes defined for a given culture. From that point of view Hero Wars frees you up quite a bit, because you have much more choice in what keywords you want to take. Sure, they suggest some common ones within particular cultures, but in the next sentence (metaphorically speaking) they encourage you to make up your own. > > To me, it looks like Hero Wars finally frees Glorantha from the > > Runequest system. Have you got any idea how long some of us have > > been waiting for that ? > > No. I hadn't realized that RQ was so onerous. But I can't say > that Hero> Wars seems like a decent roleplaying system on any terms, much less > compared to RQ. Well, I don't think Runequest scales very well and the biggest problem with it was always that there are so many cool powers and magics written up in stories or legends that PCs simply can't do because the rule system didn't support them. Heroquesting is a perfect example, but the range of powers that some of the more powerful NPCs have (Jar-Eel, Harrek, etc.) or some of the more powerful artifacts are good examples. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:13:00 -0800 From: "Timothy Byrd" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] GM fiat > It is an understood concept in most fantasy games that > anything you capture can be kept or sold. I prefer the concept that the rewards you get are proportional to your contribution to the game. If you want to keep a major benefit that you picked up during play, you declare it to be part of your just reward. > If he says "You can have this sword or a level" he is trying to > manipulate the player, who has earned the level, into giving it up for > better magic. This is insulting to the player because if he wasn't going > to give away the sword, he never should have made it available in the > treasure. I wouldn't say the the player earned the level. I'd say he'd earned a certain amount of benefit or reward. If he wants to take that reward in the form of a magic sword instead of personal skills that's his decision. And what about the other players that may have contributed more even more? Do they deserve to get half as much reward just because they didn't happen to be the first to grab the magic geegaw? What happens when you get a character that can make use of the vast majority of toys you find during play (e.g. a CA healer)? Or if their character concept doesn't go for material possesions? Do you just say that they are screwed because of their character choice? Why have a vested interest in unfair rewards? > There is some shock value in starting a session with the line "Your inn > was raided in the night and you only had time to grab four items before > trying to escape. Everything left behind has been seized and you have > been in hiding for two days now." I would find that a less honest way of doing things. Besides, that would also punish the rest of party for the referee's inability to give out rewards in a fair manner. And it gets old very, very quickly. > Someone might die on occasion, but the purpose of > the game is for the players to win. No, the purpose is to have fun. If the purpose was to win, CoC would not exist. To aid this purpose, it is often the goal to set things up so the game can continue. What this mechanic mimics is the ending of a lot of episodic fiction. Conan may end up in command of a pirate ship, but he's on his own by the beginning of the next story. - -- Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #32 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.