From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #61 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, June 15 2000 Volume 03 : Number 061 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] extended contest alternate rules [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars Re: [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars Re: Re: [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars Re: [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? RE: Re: [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? Re: [RQ-RULES] extended contest alternate rules [RQ-RULES] Pete's RQ! Update and COA RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Jun 2000 18:11:50 +0200 From: Alain RAMEAU Subject: [RQ-RULES] extended contest alternate rules To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. - ------------------------------ Graham J Robinson wrote : >I'll be sticking details on my web site soon - I won't be announcing it >here though, cos this is a bit off topic. Let me know if you want the URL >when its ready. I think you should tell the whole list when ready. I am working on a similar system (and Julian Lord as well, AFAIK (?) ), so I'd be interested to nick some good ideas :-) Alain. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:19:31 -0700 From: "Trent Smith" Subject: [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars (I wanted to send this to the hw-rules list, but I cant get a response at their website. I want to post this somewhere ('cause I just came up with it), and no one yelled at me for my last off-topic post, so I'm going to continue pressing my luck. Apologies in advance, once again) I came up with the following to address what is, to me, the most glaring flaw in the otherwise admirably flexible Hero Wars system: the lack of any concept of fatigue or attrition without which, theoretically, a character can continue exerting himself infinitely, without rest, always functioning at peak capacity so long as her never loses a contest. This might work for b-movies and comic book superheroes, but it simply does not jibe with reality, or even well-written heroic fiction. As heroic feel need not be totally exclusive from common sense, I therefore present: ***** FATIGUE IN 'HERO WARS' Even heroes get tired. Prolonged and intense exertion (be it mental or physical) can drain the strongest of wills, and without sufficient rest between feats even the hardiest of heroes will eventually succomb to exhaustion. While in the heat of battle (literally or figuratively) stamina and adrenaline are enough to keep most heroes going (represented by AP), after any Extended Contest each character must succeed in a simple contest of an appropriate ability (Hardy, Workhorse, Feels No Pain, etc.) against the number of exchanges in the Contest (the contest lasted 3 exchanges = target 3; an epic contest lasting 27 exchanges = 7W) to avoid becoming Fatigued. Interpret results of the contest as follows: Complete Victory: Character is exhilirated, and has +1 modifier to all abilities of the same category* for the next 4 hours. Major Victory: Character is energized. As above, but only for the next 15 minutes. Minor / Marginal Victory: character is unaffected Marginal Defeat: Character is winded, suffering -1 from abilities of the same category until he has rested at least 1 hour. Minor Defeat: Character is tired, suffering -1 from all abilities until he has rested for at least 4 hours. Major Defeat: Character is fatigued, suffering -50% from abilities of the same category (and -1 to abilities from the other) until he has rested for at least 8 hours (4 hours rest will reduce penalty to -1/0). Complete Defeat: Character is exhausted, suffering -50% from all abilities until he has rested for a full 24 hours. Modifier: If the character lost the contest, bump down one. *Mental or Physical: A character can be physically drained, but still think straight, or vice versa. This rule applies to the winner and loser of contests alike (but note the modifier). Also, the effects of fatigue are cumulative: if a character is drawn into another extended contest while fatigued, he risks becoming even more fatigued (-2, -(50%+1), or even -75%), but could also become energized, temporarily counteracting the effects of previous fatigue. ***** NOTES: I've never actually played the game, and therefore don't have a feel for some of these numbers (specifically: how long a typical extended contest lasts, and what chance a typical character would have of succeeding in a contest against that). The intent is that an average character have a 50% or so chance of becoming fatigued after a moderate-length contest. A quick victory should give hardy characters a decent chance of actually improving their ability ("I'm just gettin' warmed up!"), but a long and grueling contest should wear down all but the toughest. Comments? Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:31:42 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars Trent Smith : > FATIGUE IN 'HERO WARS' > > Comments? Hmmm ... actually, I think that normal AP attrition *is* Fatigue in HW. cheers, Julian Lord *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:50:18 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Re: [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars Julian Lord wrote: > Hmmm ... actually, I think that normal AP attrition *is* Fatigue in > HW. So it is, within the context of each individual contest. What I'm looking for is something to carry over from one contest to another -- perhaps I should have titled it 'Long-Term Fatigue in Hero Wars.' An example to try and illustrate what I'm getting at: Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi play a long 5-set championship match, an extended contest with rising and falling AP and the whole thing. Sampras wins the match, reducing Agassi to 0 AP, but he's worn himself out doing so, and only has 5 AP left (of his original 50 -- these guys are definitely Master players). Now, to my understanding (and no one has told me otherwise), if Sampras were to start up another match with a new opponent all of the fatigue from his grueling Agassi match would be erased and he'd have a fresh 50 AP for the new contest. This just doesn't seem right to me -- a person who has exerted himself strenuosly in an extended contest should show some sort of after-effect until he's able to rest and recover. Most games (RQ3 being somewhat an exception) model this by Hit Point attrition, which is a lame mechanic which I'm glad HW does away with, but not at the expense of neglecting this important fact of life. Under the current rules every contest is an all-or-nothing affair and it's (seemingly) impossible to simulate any sort of Pyrrhic Victory, where the victor is weakened nearly as much as the loser. To continue my tennis analogy (hey, it's between Roland-Garros and Wimbeldon, tennis is in the air!), have you ever seen a player win a tough match and then come out in the next round still looking fatigued and get eliminated by an inferior opponent? It happens all the time, at least once in almost every tournament! And yet, except by GM Fiat, there's currently no way to model such a (to my mind quite dramatic and heroic) situation in HW. Hopefully that clears up at least a little of what I had in mind. Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:13:14 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars Trent : > > Hmmm ... actually, I think that normal AP attrition *is* Fatigue in > HW. > > So it is, within the context of each individual contest. What I'm looking for is something to carry over from one contest to another -- perhaps I should have titled it 'Long-Term Fatigue in Hero Wars.' OK, fair enough. I'll have another look at your proposal ... however : I know that several versions of the draft rules *did* address this problem, actually ... Greg & Robin & co eventually decided that it was a matter of GM style, but I think that the idea was that you can simulate long-term Fatigue by not letting the hero regain some or all of any APs lost between 'scenes'. The way to simulate the Roland-GarrosQuest with the HW rules would be to run it as a single extended contest between the hero and a series of progressively stronger (probably) opponents, with some kind of rule for AP recovery during your rest periods (and hopefully some role-playing too !!). Hmmm ... Wrong List !! cheers, Julian Lord *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:31:10 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Battarbee Subject: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? Hi all - I've finally grown tired of the lousy cult description of Orlanth in Gods of Glorantha. I already began writing one by myself, but was wondering whether large write-ups already exist. I know many write-ups that simply describe how the cult of Orlanth is divided into sub-cults, but I haven't so far found any that would have actual gameplay rules to use... Anybody here know of such a description? Markus Battarbee *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 14:34:48 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? The best one I saw was in the Heroes (AH) magazine. I do not remember the issue number but it also had the Wolfrunners scenario in it. Leon Kirshtein www.geocities.com/leonbk/ "No good deed shall go unpunished." ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:42:48 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: RE: Re: [RQ-RULES] OT(sorry): Fatigue in Hero Wars > So it is, within the context of each individual contest. >What I'm looking for is something to carry over from one contest >to another -- perhaps I should have titled it 'Long-Term Fatigue >in Hero Wars.' Your example suggests that what you want is to stretch out the return of Physical AP after exertion so that it can take up to two days to be recovered. This is a simple GM fiat where you can give several points back within ten to twenty minutes and the rest are per hour like MP recovery in RQ. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:56:36 +0100 From: Michael Cule Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? In message , Markus Battarbee writes >Hi all - I've finally grown tired of the lousy cult description of Orlanth >in Gods of Glorantha. I already began writing one by myself, but was >wondering whether large write-ups already exist. Yes, both in RIVER OF CRADLES and an article in HEROES magazine. - -- Michael Cule *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:13:12 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? Markus Battarbee : > Hi all - I've finally grown tired of the lousy cult description of Orlanth > in Gods of Glorantha. I already began writing one by myself, but was > wondering whether large write-ups already exist. Many, many large write-ups of RuneQuest Cults have been written in the last 22 years, yes. > I know many write-ups > that simply describe how the cult of Orlanth is divided into sub-cults, > but I haven't so far found any that would have actual gameplay rules to > use... Anybody here know of such a description? The Cult of Orlanth for RuneQuest has been published in many places, all of them Out Of Print (OOP) ... Other Cults are more easily available : try and find current or back issues of Tales of the Reaching Moon, Tradetalk, and The Book of Drastic Resolutions : all excellent Glorantha & RuneQuest fanzines. You speak of write-ups that describe how Orlanth is divided into sub-cults, but don't have actual gameplay rules to use : have you seen the Issaries website (http://www.glorantha.com) info on Orlanth and many other Cults ? Otherwise, Orlanth has appeared in the RuneQuest 2 rules book (in 1978!), Cults of Prax, an issue of Heroes magazine, and most recently (and you *may* still be able to find it) in River of Cradles (which is highly recommended for MANY reasons : well worth the search & the money). Or, if you wait a while, I understand that a BIG Book of Gloranthan Cults will appear within a couple of years from Rick Meintz' Moon Design Productions (is that right?). Also, a Long Form Cult of Orlanth for Hero Wars, the new Gloranthan RPG, will most likely be contained in Thunder Rebels, coming soon (and this time they *mean* it !! ;-). Long Form Write-Ups of Gloranthan Cults have only just started to appear, but there will very likely soon be many, many of them. Where do you live ? Try subscribing to the Glorantha Digest at http://www.glorantha.com, and call for help : perhaps you'll find someone who lives near you, and who might agree to a secret rendez-vous à trois with a photocopying machine ? Also, you can ask around to see if any one has an electronic version avauilable. Also, try Searching the Web with a search engine for the 'Cult of Orlanth', etc.. for 'unofficial' on-line material. A better place to start looking is on the Links page of http://www.glorantha.com You should download the Prosopaedia info from http://www.glorantha.com at the very least, even though it's out of date. Good Hunting !! Julian Lord *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:30:30 +0100 From: Philip.Hibbs@tnt.co.uk Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? River of Cradles has the full Orlanth cult writeup. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:03:38 +0100 (BST) From: Graham J Robinson Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] extended contest alternate rules >I think you should tell the whole list when ready. I am working on a similar >system (and Julian Lord as well, AFAIK (?) ), so I'd be interested to nick some >good ideas :-) > I will be announcing it on the glorantha digest and the various HW lists (do we really need two?) but its way off topic for the RQ list - in my opinion. Which is why I wasn't going to announce it here. I'll change my mind if large numbers of people disagree. Cheers, Graham - -- Graham Robinson. Dept. Computing Science, Glasgow. gjr@dcs.gla.ac.uk http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~gjr Superstition, idolatry, and hypocrisy have ample wages, but truth goes a-begging. Martin Luther *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:53:28 -0400 From: "peterm/maranci.net@mail.maranci.net" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Pete's RQ! Update and COA Hi, all! Pete's RuneQuest Page! is changing addresses. Please change your bookmarks from http://www.tiac.net/maranci/rq.htm to http://www.maranci.net/rq.htm The old address will be valid for a while longer, but will no longer be updated (it's already out of date). It will eventually be transformed into a "TIAC SUCKS!" site (Tiac is my former host -- long story). Likewise my main personal email address is changing to peter@maranci.net. This should be much more reliable and allow quicker response time than the previous address. My apologies to those who've written and not received a response, but it turns out that Tiac has bounced my incoming mail for weeks at a time without notifying me. Write again; I'll reply quickly. For those on my email update list: An update was sent out this morning. A lot of addresses bounced, and were therefore removed from the list. If you think you're on the list and didn't get an update today, drop me a line. My RQ site has been updated with an annotated issue of Rack & Rune, a roleplaying zine from the early 1990s. It includes a high proportion of RQ material. Other issues will be put up on the site as they are converted and annotated, probably on a weekly basis -- so please check back often. I am working on a large "Found Items" table, containing random odd objects (both magical and mundane) which might be encountered by adventurers. Any suggestions for the list will be much appreciated. I'm presently running a RQ-compatible adventure set in a Dunsanian version of Call of Cthulhu's Dreamlands. It is completely compatible with almost any fantasy setting, including Glorantha. Once the adventure is complete and written up, it will be posted on the site. Is there anything else you'd like to see on the site? Write and let me know. I'm pondering a RuneQuest advice column, for one thing. The Adobe Acrobat form of the RQ3 character sheet, which can be filled in online and automatically calculates some fields, will be posted within a few days. By the way, is there a guide to RuneQuest (as opposed to Hero Wars/Glorantha) sites online? If not, maybe one should be created. I'd love to have a reference site for all the cool old things everyone's talking about posting. -->Pete - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci peter@maranci.net Woonsocket, RI Pete's RQ Page! scenarios, sheets, more: http://www.maranci.net/rq.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #61 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.