From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #62 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Monday, June 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 062 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? [RQ-RULES] Fatigue Re: [RQ-RULES] Fatigue [RQ-RULES] Looking for Convention GMs! Re: [RQ-RULES] Fatigue [RQ-RULES] Re: HeroQuest Rules RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 19:40:19 +0300 (EET DST) From: Olli-Pekka Kantola Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Large cult description of Orlanth? On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Markus Battarbee wrote: > Hi all - I've finally grown tired of the lousy cult description of Orlanth > in Gods of Glorantha. I already began writing one by myself, but was > wondering whether large write-ups already exist. I know many write-ups > that simply describe how the cult of Orlanth is divided into sub-cults, > but I haven't so far found any that would have actual gameplay rules to > use... Anybody here know of such a description? Try the one in The River of Cradles. It was fairly complete. It should be still available from Fantasiapelit, 175 FIM. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:48:04 -0400 (EDT) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Fatigue Trent Smith: > I came up with the following to address what is, to me, the most glaring >flaw in the otherwise admirably flexible Hero Wars system: the lack of any >concept of fatigue or attrition without which, theoretically, a character >can continue exerting himself infinitely, without rest, always functioning >at peak capacity so long as her never loses a contest. Ok, I can see I'm not going to get anywhere with this, but still I think this is a glaring case of believing "The rules are the world". Hero Wars very clearly and repeatedly explains that the GM should apply whatever constraints and situational modifiers she feels are necessery during the game. It goes much further than most games in encouraging GMs to focus on the world as your characters experience it rather than enforcing rules logic. Hero Wars does not say that characters can carry on fighting, or whatever, forever. This is your extrapolation from the rules on one contest following on shortly after another. If one contest does obviously have a direct effect on the status of character in a contest following on shortly after it, then I would argue that it is actualy a continuation of the previous contest. This is why Tennis tournaments have breaks for players between matches, and sets. If they didn't, then they would in fact be a strangely structured form of extended group contest. One concept I have been toying with is applying AP modifiers at the beginning of contests, to reflect tactical advantages or disadvantages. For example, a Troll warrior rushing to attack your hero from behind a bush up-slope from your character, is clearly in a much better possition than his identical twin brother attacking from further away (more warning) down slope of your character. I think it would be sensible to represent these situations as AP bonuses and penalties on the trolls starting AP totals. This could be extended to representing fatigue as a persistent AP penalty. I personaly loathe continuous fatigue tracking systems. They're rarely even remotely realistic, and are a completely unnecessery burden under most circumstances. I'm perfectly happy to simply apply modifiers on the spot when necessery, and save myself and the players the unecessery extra bookkeeping in 95%+ of game sessions. This goes for any game, not just Hero Wars. Of course, different people have different prefferences. The Hero wars web site has a page for people to submit rules suggestions, and this looks like a prime candidate for submission. Even if people do not choose to use it, at least you will have raised the subject in people's minds, which is a worthy thing to do. The rules are not the world. Glorantha was developed long before Runequest, and will continue to be developed long after Hero Wars. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:25:36 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Fatigue Simon Hibbs wrote: > Ok, I can see I'm not going to get anywhere with this, but still I think this > is a glaring case of believing "The rules are the world". Further than you think, actually. If not entirely convinced, I'm at least convinced to "agree to disagree," and will no longer insist that the rules are "broken" as is. Hero Wars very > clearly and repeatedly explains that the GM should apply whatever constraints > and situational modifiers she feels are necessery during the game. It goes > much further than most games in encouraging GMs to focus on the world as > your characters experience it rather than enforcing rules logic. This is the primary difference of opinion I have with the HW system. In dealing with "physical-world" (as opposed to "story world") situations I prefer to have things as much as possible spelled out logically and consistently. Others (obviously the designers and champions of HW) prefer to wing it on a situation by situation basis. Hey, different strokes for different folks. > One concept I have been toying with is applying AP modifiers at the > beginning of contests, to reflect tactical advantages or disadvantages. > For example, a Troll warrior rushing to attack your hero from behind a > bush up-slope from your character, is clearly in a much better possition > than his identical twin brother attacking from further away (more warning) > down slope of your character. I think it would be sensible to represent > these situations as AP bonuses and penalties on the trolls starting > AP totals. This could be extended to representing fatigue as a persistent > AP penalty. A good general guideline. Is there some place in the rules that mentions doing such a thing or was this your innovation? If the former, I overlooked it; if the latter, I think such a suggestion SHOULD be made in the rules -- not necessarily specific rules (fighting uphill = -3 AP penalty) which might run contrary to the freeform nature of the system, but just a reminder to the narrator that this is something than can be done. Under the rules as written, I got the impression that all tactical advantages are only a post-hoc rationalization for the dice-roll: "Aha, that troll is losing lots of AP, he must be fighting uphill or something," which struck my rules-loving literalist mind as way too abstract, and kinda lame. > I personaly loathe continuous fatigue tracking systems. They're rarely > even remotely realistic, and are a completely unnecessery burden under > most circumstances. I'm perfectly happy to simply apply modifiers on the > spot when necessery, and save myself and the players the unecessery extra > bookkeeping in 95%+ of game sessions. This goes for any game, not just > Hero Wars. Reiterating what I wrote above, there are obviously two different mindsets at work here, and since I already have a system (my house version of RQ) that meets my ideal balance between rules and creative freedom, I'll let the other side have theirs too, and stop insisting that HW is bad just because the mechanics don't cover every situation in specific enough terms for me. > The rules are not the world. Glorantha was developed long before Runequest, > and will continue to be developed long after Hero Wars. Indeed, but the rules are (most of) our interface to that world, and will affect how we perceive it. The fact that two such widely opposed sets of rules (gritty detailed RQ and free-form anything goes HW) supposedly describe the same place is curious and problematic to me, and will lead to incompatible interpretations. The impression I got of Glorantha based on RQ products like 'Borderlands' was that it was mostly a visceral low-fantasy world. Now, with HW, it seems like Glorantha is being portrayed as more of an antiseptic high-fantasy world, and, to my RQ-inflected mind, that just isn't the Glorantha I'm familiar with. Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:01:47 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] Looking for Convention GMs! Hello... I'm the RPG Coordinator for ShoreCon 2000, which is being held this September 28 - October 1st at the Hilton in Cherry Hill, NJ. If you're interested in running some games, please feel free to visit our website (http://gameconventions.com/shorecon/index.html) and use our online GM submission form. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to email me (privately) at mailto:talmeta@cybercomm.net - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:50:26 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Fatigue Trent : > Simon : > > Hero Wars very > > clearly and repeatedly explains that the GM should apply whatever constraints > > and situational modifiers she feels are necessery during the game. It goes > > much further than most games in encouraging GMs to focus on the world as > > your characters experience it rather than enforcing rules logic. > > This is the primary difference of opinion I have with the HW system. > In dealing with "physical-world" (as opposed to "story world") situations I > prefer to have things as much as possible spelled out logically and consistently. > Others (obviously the designers and champions of HW) prefer to wing it on a > situation by situation basis. Hey, different strokes for different folks. I second this : I think that HW is a very good game, and I'll be stealing from it wholesale (especially Magic Philosophy and such) ; but my GMing style simply isn't compatible with the core rules of the game (however seductive and well-written they may be). > > One concept I have been toying with is applying AP modifiers at the > > beginning of contests, to reflect tactical advantages or disadvantages. > > A good general guideline. Is there some place in the rules that mentions > doing such a thing or was this your innovation? If the former, I overlooked > it; if the latter, I think such a suggestion SHOULD be made in the rules -- So do I really ; I can't believe they left that one out !! Ah well : back to work on my own RuneQuest/Hero Wars Chimaera ... cheers, Julian Lord *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:42:58 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: HeroQuest Rules Hello everyone, Just a little note to tell anyone who's interested that parts 1 and 2 (character creation & basic Action Rules) of my version of HeroQuest is at http://perso.wanadoo.fr/runelord/runelord/runelord.htm thanks to Steve Perrin & the Hero Wars team for the inspiration !! Please note that the juicy bits will be in Parts 3 + ... cheers, Julian Lord *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #62 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.