From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #74 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Monday, August 14 2000 Volume 03 : Number 074 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Guns and armour Re: [RQ-RULES] stuff Re: [RQ-RULES] stuff Re: [RQ-RULES] stuff [RQ-RULES] Chaos Project [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:14:13 -0400 From: Andrew Barton Subject: [RQ-RULES] Guns and armour > KE and Momentum are the same thing. Nope. Momentum is mass times velocity. Kinetic Energy is half times mass times velocity squared. Which is why a modern firearm with a much higher muzzle velocity does more damage than a musket, although the bullet is smaller and lighter. Its recoil is not greater in the same proportion. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 10:47:37 +1200 From: "The Dude" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] stuff I am very interested.... > Hello all, > > Someone posted awhile ago wanting to know the availability of RQ stuff. > I just acquired some extra copies of Wyrm's Footnotes if anyone is > interested. Issues 11, 12, 13, and 14. I also came across a lot of the > early White Dwarf issues on the web at Noble Knight Games, there is a > list of which issues contain RQ articles on the web, but I am not sure > where. > > Kurt *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:49:23 +0100 From: William Wenz Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] stuff Hello, Which issues are you interested in? I'm only asking for $12 apiece for them, that's maybe a dollar over what I paid for them after I add my costs (shipping etc.), plus $3.00 shipping. I use USP 2 to 3 day, it's between $3 and $4 but I'll eat the difference, if you want the package shipped some other way I'll have to find out what the costs are. (book rate is cheaper but takes forever) I've seen issues go between 10 to 25 on ebay . The issues are in pretty good shape. If there are any questions you have, please let me know. If you wish to use Paypal I have an account with them. I can also get insurance on the package if you want. ( I usually don't but have been burned once, now I do for things over $50 now) Kurt *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 23:05:19 +0100 From: William Wenz Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] stuff My apologies to the list, my last post was supposed to be private. ( not that I mind you seeing what I am asking in case that it is unreasonable, but I didn't mean to put something so off topic up) Kurt *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 03:02:37 -0400 From: Peter Maranci Subject: [RQ-RULES] Chaos Project I feel uncomfortably close to spamming, so let me say that I'm going to try my darndest to NOT POST to the Digest for a while after this one. But I've added a new RQ NPC record sheet to the sheets section of Pete's RuneQuest Page!. It has space for the essential stats of up to nine NPCs on a single page. I've put up PDF, DOC, and RTF versions of the file. Also, in a fit of some sort of insanity I've started something on my site that I'm calling The Chaos Project: areas where visitors can post chaos features, magic items, and found items. Over time, I'm hoping these will produce massive and bizarre lists. These are "living" lists, so anyone can put up their ideas immediately. Of course you can include your name and email address, so you can keep credit for your ideas. The main URL is http://www.maranci.net/rq.htm ; both the sheets page and The Chaos Project are clearly linked from there. Thanks for all the feedback, by the way; looks like I'll be writing up "A Breath of Evil" as a generic adventure. On the other hand, the scenario I just came up with pretty much *has* to be set in Glorantha - -- man, it's a big and nasty one! ->Peter - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci peter@maranci.net Woonsocket, RI Pete's RQ Page! scenarios, sheets, more: http://www.maranci.net/rq.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:16:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Kevin Rose Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor Rich Allen wrote: > If a ball shot from a gun doesn't do more damage, or have more effect on > the target, than a sling stone there would be absolutely no reason to > use one. Reload times are much faster for the sling; ammo is only > dependant on the amount of stones that can be carried, no powder to haul > around and keep dry, no flints to keep track of, etc. Have you ever tried to use a sling? They are really easy to make, go try it some time. You can teach someone to use a rifle to hit a man sized target at 300 meters most of the time in a week. I would be willing to bet that you could not hit a man sized target at 50 meters more than one time out of 20 after a month of practicing. Note that only people who spend a WHOLE lot of time with nothing to do but practice use slings historically. Like six hours a day for five years, while making sure the sheep don't do something too stupid. Slings are fiendishly difficult to learn, and require significant practice to maintain ability. Crossbows, and muskets after them, offer most of the power of a good bow without requiring years of training. And muskets and crossbows are easy to make. They don't require months or years of construction by experts, like composite bows did. (An expert will do a much better job, but the crossbow built by the village blacksmith can kill you dead also.) The Mongol and Turkish composite bow can be argued to be superior to every musket or rifle produced up to about the Sharps 50 for combat usage. They grossly outranged muskets, for instance. But you needed something like 10 years of nearly constant practice to get decent skill. And if you use a few light cannon protected by hordes of quickly trained guys with muskets the bow guys are in trouble if they try to attack. A .38 special delivers a lot less energy and momentum than a roundhouse punch. Despite this I would rather get punched in the stomach than shot with a .38. So I'm not all that sure about how relevant energy is to the damage done. There are other more important factors if you are comparing apples to oranges. Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:10:24 -0400 From: rico@mindspring.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor Kevin Rose wrote: >> Rich Allen wrote: >> If a ball shot from a gun doesn't do more damage, or have >> more effect on the target, than a sling stone there would >> be absolutely no reason to use one. > > Have you ever tried to use a sling? They are really easy to > make, go try it some time. You can teach someone to use a > rifle to hit a man sized target at 300 meters most of the > time in a week. I would be willing to bet that you could > not hit a man sized target at 50 meters more than one time > out of 20 after a month of practicing. We aren't talking about me, or about medieval history; we are talking about characters in RuneQuest. Compare a character with 75% attack in sling with one that has 75% attack in musket. That's all that is important in this discussion. If the musket doesn't do lots more damage, or have a beneficial effect such as auto-knockback, there's simply no good reason to carry the gun, the ammo, and the powder around as a primary weapon. If the character knew they would be in a situation where no other weapon would be as effective, such as a sniper shooting from a narrow, concealed position on a superior force, then the added weight and care would be justified. But as a starting character, knowing that re-loading a muscket would take longer than re-loading a crossbow, and a lot longer than re-loading a sling; and knowing that the sling and crossbow do similar damage to a target that the musket does, I wouldn't decide to spend my time learning and practicing the musket. There's no! ! provision in RQ for training weapon skills faster if the weapon is easier to learn, so what's the motivation, aside from cinematics? Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 08:33:55 -0700 (PDT) From: dabick@excite.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor > We aren't talking about me, or about medieval history; we are talking about characters in RuneQuest. Okay, lets talk about RuneQuest. At 75% the person is an experienced veteran. This would represent Count Someonius core troops. He maintains them year round and they provide most duties. But his Lord is planing on participating in an invasion and the requires that the Count must provide troops. The required manpower is more than those experienced veterans. So he has to quickly train is commoners. Now it has been stated, on this list, that sling and bow are difficult to learn and crossbow and musket is easy to learn. (I don't think anyone has disputed it.) Rich is right that standard RQ 2 and RQ 3 do not have provision for easy and hard skill. But there are plenty of house rules as well at the RQ4 rules that address this. The best I have seen, is the training time for medium skills are standard RQ, with easy skills requiring less time (half) and hard requiring more (double). Now (in RQ game mind set) the Count takes four weeks to train his troops in the easy skills of Musket or Crossbow. Their sling would be about 17% or musket at about 50%. Which troops would you want to go command in combat? Rich also mentions the extra weight. Yes the musket weights more than the sling. So! There troops. They are expected to march to the battle and fight. They may not even carry those heavy guns the whole time. Drawing them only when they are near combat or on guard or screening duty. Once in combat the easier training out weights the difficulty of training slingers. Also the close order that bowmen and musketeers fight from, proved greater impact, than the loose order that slinger need. All those rock swinging around means a loose formation and the rock/missiles are more spread out when they hit the target unit. So the greater shock of impact from close formations has more weight than the loose formations. Some weight is better than others are. I have been talking about large combat. Something that might be played out with miniatures. Rich mentions Characters. But why were most weapons used, and why did people train in them? For the large combats, associated with wars. If the culture is one that conducts small raids, then the weapons used for hunting would be predominate. Crossbows and muskets were made for war. So if your character is trained for war, he could very well learn these skills. If he is training for hunting and raiding, then he might learn sling. Now to throw the monkey wrench into the works. The early muskets were not reloaded in combat. They did not stand back and exchange volleyed fire. At least in Europe they mixed the Musketeers with spearmen. The troops advanced to musket range and let loose with a single volley. The spearmen and musketeers then charged with the muskets now being used as clubs. So you don't need to worry about the re-load rate of early muskets. Jim Bickmeyer _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:53:22 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor >A .38 special delivers a lot less energy and momentum than a >roundhouse punch. Despite this I would rather get punched in the stomach >than shot with a .38. So I'm not all that sure about how relevant energy >is to the damage done. There are other more important factors if you are >comparing apples to oranges. >Kevin The important ratio is Energy/cm^2, that is what punches through tissue and rips organs open. It is also how martial artists break boards. Arrowheads and small objects with good velocity have higher ratios than punches from a prize fighter. The best the fighter can do is break a bone. All of the missile weapons can kill you and accuracy at long range is not critically important if the forces are mobile, so the guy who can train and field 20,000 troops sooner can attack before the opponent is ready. Microsoft proved that you don't have to be the best, or even fairly good, as long as you have overwhelming numbers. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:32:45 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Guns and Armor > Now (in RQ game mind set) the Count takes four weeks to train his > troops in > the easy skills of Musket or Crossbow. Their sling would be about 17% or > musket at about 50%. Which troops would you want to go command in combat? Oh, I agree. But for NPCs in RuneQuest there isn't really any training time at all. As a GM, I just say "The count has 200 troops with d20 + 40% in musket" and it's a done deal. I thought we were talking about player characters... you know, the kind that go out on all kinds of varied adventures. Training time rules only apply to player characters, but I also agree about the house-rule thing; if you rule that different skills have different training times then a musket would become much more attractive to a player character. But I don't think you can count on any particular game having that kind of house rule, so I don't think it's all that relevant to the discussion. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #74 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.