From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #105 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, October 26 2000 Volume 03 : Number 105 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] RE: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #103 [RQ-RULES] Skill training RE: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training RE: [RQ-RULES] Skill training [RQ-RULES] Point blank Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:58:01 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] RE: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #103 First Name Last Name wrote: > > But in RQ3 this and all other Detect spells became much lamer-ahem-weaker, requiring the caster to use a dowsing stick and being pulled from one source to the next. This always seemed really stupid to me in the case of Detect Enemies in particular. Personally, if I'm about to discover that someone is my enemy I'm going to want something a lot bigger than a dowsing stick in my hands at the time. I've always used the 'glow visible to the caster' rule, myself. I might occasionally impose the dowsing rod on the odd shaman or cult write-up, if I thought it fit better than the glow. > Second question: I'd like to make a magic item that automatically "recharges" lost fatigue. But I'm not sure how to do this. I could have an Endurance matrix with a linked MP battery and the condition that it casts when the wearer goes below, say, five FAT (or whatever, for those who don't use the RQ3 fatigue system). That would cost at least four POW, as I read it, and I'm not sure how the spell would be aware of the fatigue level of the wearer. And what would the chance of success be? And if the wearer resists for some reason, does the spell try to overcome? With what POW? The various Tap spells would work, but that might be a vicious circle. :) A spell spirit with Endurance and Detect Fatigue could probably be a cheaper work-around, though. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:09:36 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Skill training I've come to think that the system for skills training is pretty unrealistic. For example, a player wishes to train his Broadsword Attack, it is highly unlikely that he'll stand there practising cuts to the exclusion of all else! Sparring, movement and many other things go into training for weapons, so perhaps the hourly rate should looks something like this. Training hours breakdown : 50% Broadsword Attack 10% Broadsword/Shield Parry 10% Dodge 10% Strength training 10% Constitution training 10% Dexterity training Now, this may look involved, but as it's the *player* keeping track of it there's no problem for the GM! It can be used for non-combat skills too, just look at what stats influence the bonus for the category and it's likely you'll undergo refinement of your physical statistics when training (you *are* getting fitter!) Equally, sorcerers should be getting time in read/write when researching spells and I'm sure the GM could adjudicate many other instances. Of course, the actual breakdown should be declared when the player initially investigates the training opportunities, and these standard courses should be kept in the files for future reference. Comments? Jim Lawrie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:45:57 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Skill training > For example, a player wishes to train his Broadsword Attack, it is > highly unlikely that he'll stand there practising cuts to the exclusion of > all else! Sparring, movement and many other things go into training for > weapons, so perhaps the hourly rate should looks something like this. Hey, I like this. Training is something my group handles off-line, so to speak; it's done before play begins, or after we break for the night. This system won't add any complexity during play, but it adds a lot to the feel of a character and it makes sense! Cool, thanks! Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:46:10 GMT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training >From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" > I've come to think that the system for skills training is pretty >unrealistic. > For example, a player wishes to train his Broadsword Attack, it is >highly unlikely that he'll stand there practicing cuts to the exclusion of >all else! Sparring, movement and many other things go into training for >weapons, so perhaps the hourly rate should looks something like this. > > Training hours breakdown : > >50% Broadsword Attack >10% Broadsword/Shield Parry >10% Dodge >10% Strength training >10% Constitution training >10% Dexterity training I think you are opening a can of worms here. Even though it may appear to be more realistic I am not so sure if it is playable. At which point do you increase the skill? I assume it is then the time spent = hours in the skill at 100%. So, now players must keep track of partial time spent training. How long will this partial training last? Does it fade with time? Is the Dodge learned from Broadsword Attack the same as Dodge learned from Animal Training (as then you are avoid a horse bite while trying to domesticate it)? > > Now, this may look involved, but as it's the *player* keeping track of >it there's no problem for the GM! I think you are wrong here. I see it as a major headache for GM as he tries to determine all of the side skills being learned and for players as they attempt to keep track of it. Leon Kirshtein www.geocities.com/leonbk/ "No good deed shall go unpunished." _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:15:01 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Jim Lawrie wrote: > I've come to think that the system for skills training is pretty unrealistic. >50% Broadsword Attack >10% Broadsword/Shield Parry >10% Dodge >10% Strength training >10% Constitution training >10% Dexterity training > Now, this may look involved, but as it's the *player* keeping track of >it there's no problem for the GM! It can be used for non-combat skills too, >just look at what stats influence the bonus for the category and it's likely >you'll undergo refinement of your physical statistics when training (you >*are* getting fitter!) While this looks like a nice idea, the extra bookkeeping involved (especially for the stats-training) would surely give my rules-phobic players fits. A couple other points: 1) Aren't weapon attack/parry (or weapon attack/ shield parry) always trained as a pair anyway? Or is this some misconception (possibly from RQ2) that I've unwittingly carried over? 2) What happens when a character is no longer able to gain benefit from training included stats or skills? Is he still forced to invest "waste hours" in them, or can he 'optimize' his training regimen? Even before this point, I think my players would feel hosed by such a system, since it effectively makes training a specific skill take twice as long, with very little tangible benefit (unless they're doing a LOT of training -- training stats takes a long time, even at "full" speed). Since I'm generally in favor of modular complexity and allowing each GM to customize and prioritize an individual ideal 'realism vs ease-of-play' balance, I have no objection to such a system being presented as an option, but, personally, I'm sure I'd never use it. Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:22:02 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training I've always just used the training rules as right outta the book, but when I hooked up with this new group I'm gaming with last year, they had this ponderous tome of a 3 ring binder, labeled "Training Matrix". It has columns listing each starting skill %, and the % you can train it to, with the corresponding amount of hours already figured. At first it made my head hurt, but now I understand it. For example, if you were at 46% and you wanted to train a skill up to, say, 66%, you'd look up the 46 to 66 column, which'd give X amount of hours listed. If you didn't have the listed number of hours available, then you couldn't train to that level; settling on something less than an increase to 66%. I haven't the _slightest_ idea where they got this thing, but I'll find out and get back to you... -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:39:23 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Skill training > I've come to think that the system for skills training is pretty >unrealistic... > Training hours breakdown : >50% Broadsword Attack >10% Broadsword/Shield Parry >10% Dodge >10% Strength training >10% Constitution training >10% Dexterity training While I generally agree with breaking training up into it's constituent parts, or dividing the day into one hour periods with a different topic studied for each one. This is still a lot of paperwork for the player (and the referee), so few are likely to implement it. I don't recall if it is RQ2 or RQ3, but when you train the larger skill for an attack/parry combination you are supposed to get a check for the lesser skill free. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:01:25 +0200 (CEST) From: dariocor@neomedia.it Subject: [RQ-RULES] Point blank Hi to all Question 1) In my past adventure I used a point blank rule for bows. Up to half DX in mt. and the attack roll was doubled. Do you think this rule fair? Or it unbalance the combat to bowmen? Question 2) Why the arrows don't remain struck in the location? I speak of normal succes attack from a bow, not the impale. In real word the arrows hit the target and then drop to the ground? Thank you Ciao Dario *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:06:48 -0600 From: "Stephen Posey [TurboPower Software]" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > > I've always just used the training rules as right outta the book, but when > I hooked up with this new group I'm gaming with last year, they had this > ponderous tome of a 3 ring binder, labeled "Training Matrix". > It has columns listing each starting skill %, and the % you can train it > to, with the corresponding amount of hours already figured. > At first it made my head hurt, but now I understand it. > For example, if you were at 46% and you wanted to train a skill up to, > say, 66%, you'd look up the 46 to 66 column, which'd give X amount of hours > listed. If you didn't have the listed number of hours available, then you > couldn't train to that level; settling on something less than an increase to > 66%. > I haven't the _slightest_ idea where they got this thing, but I'll find > out and get back to you... > -Ken- I'd be interested to know how the tables were generated, was there some formula behind it? I've noticed that some folks seem to prefer tables and others seem to like formulae; I tend to be in the latter group and I've always wondered whether the preference had anything to do with how comfortable folks are with math. BTW, I'm a newbie on the list, hello everyone! ;-) Stephen Posey slposey@concentric.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:33:50 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > It has columns listing each starting skill %, and the % you can train it >to, with the corresponding amount of hours already figured. > At first it made my head hurt, but now I understand it. > For example, if you were at 46% and you wanted to train a skill up to, >say, 66%, you'd look up the 46 to 66 column, which'd give X amount of hours >listed. If you didn't have the listed number of hours available, then you >couldn't train to that level; settling on something less than an increase to >66%. A more useful book, at least from my perspective, would be a list of starting skill percentages cross-referenced with hours of training to get final percentages. I.e., if I've got 46% skill, what'll my percentage be after 50 hours' training? 100? 200? etc. I made a rough-n-tumble chart of this sort for my char-gen system, but wouldn't mind seeing a full (and, presumably, more accurate) version worked-up for in-game use (as long as I didn't have to make the chart). Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:50:09 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Stephen Posey wrote: > I'd be interested to know how the tables were generated, was there some formula >behind it? Well, per the rules (current skill) hours training = 1 pt increase*; iterated over and over to your target number (46+47+48...66). I'm sure there's a relatively simple formula to represent this, but I haven't done this sort of math since high school so I surely don't remember it. Trent *1 pt automatic, or 1.5 averaging dice-rolls. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:57:25 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training In a message dated 10/26/00 1:43:50 PM Central Daylight Time, trentfs@ix.netcom.com writes: << A more useful book, at least from my perspective, would be a list of starting skill percentages cross-referenced with hours of training to get final percentages. I.e., if I've got 46% skill, what'll my percentage be after 50 hours' training? 100? 200? etc. I made a rough-n-tumble chart of this sort for my char-gen system, but wouldn't mind seeing a full (and, presumably, more accurate) version worked-up for in-game use (as long as I didn't have to make the chart). Trent >> Heck, sounds like the same thing to me. -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:03:06 -0500 From: Jim Gould Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training At 02:33 PM 10/26/2000 -0400, you wrote: > > >A more useful book, at least from my perspective, would be a list of starting skill percentages cross-referenced with hours of training to get final percentages. I.e., if I've got 46% skill, what'll my percentage be after 50 hours' training? 100? 200? etc. I made a rough-n-tumble chart of this sort for my char-gen system, but wouldn't mind seeing a full (and, presumably, more accurate) version worked-up for in-game use (as long as I didn't have to make the chart). > I got tired of die-rolling and whipped up a little program to do training/research calculations for me. It's quite handy for spur-of-the-moment training needs. - -- "Dammit" Jim Gould jgould@io.com http://www.io.com/~jgould http://www.britanniamanor.org "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:26:33 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > Heck, sounds like the same thing to me. -Ken- It is, only organized in reverse. Instead of Heading = Skill Desired and columns of required hour numbers, the way I describe would have Heading = Available Hours and columns of possible skill numbers. Since the actual info's the same, either book could be substituted for the other, with some page-flipping. Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #105 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.