From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #3 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, February 7 2001 Volume 04 : Number 003 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Wardings and Spirit Cults Re: [RQ-RULES] Wardings from Perrin RE: [RQ-RULES] Wardings and Spirit Cults Re: [RQ-RULES] Wardings and Spirit Cults Re: [RQ-RULES] Wardings and Spirit Cults RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:24:17 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Wardings and Spirit Cults >>Jim Lawrie >>(1) Now, a Warding extends 3m *above* ground level and >>*down* to the level of the wands . . . > > I understand this to mean that the upper edge is 3 meters above the >wands and the lower edge is at the level of the wands. If the wands >are not on the same level, then the connecting walls should slope to >connect them. I also perceive that the walls will pass through solid >matter, not 'float' to the top of a structure that is built above the >wands. To get the Ward at the top of the structure, the wands have to >be placed at the top of the structure. > Using another point of Ward to get more height should be legal, >though not addressed in the rule. Not too sure if that does it Bob, but it's right at the root of my problem, the blurb in the Magic Book says : Warding 1 Point Ritual (Enchant), Stackable, Conditionally Reusable Common This ritual spell creates an area of safety for those inside. It requires four wands exactly 15 centirneters long as props. The wands can be made of any material, and can be so spaced as to enclose a maximum area of up to 81 square meters. The spell extends into the air for 3 meters, and underground to the depth of the prop stakes. The activated wands connect invisibly to form a barrier detectable only by magical means. The protection afforded by the Warding is initiated when physical or spirit enemies of the caster cross the barrier, or when a spell is cast across the barrier from the outside. When this happens a loud noise (a keening, whistling, booming, etc.) begins which may be suppressed by the casting priest. Each point of Warding counts as 1 point of Countermagic (see the spirit magic description) against spells cast across the barrier, 2 points of Spirit Resistance (see the sorcery spell description) against outside spirits, and it does as well 1D3 points of damage, ignoring armor, to one hit location of any corporal enemy that crosses the boundary. , Alternatively, the added points of Warding can be used to increase the area protected: an additional point will cover up to another 81m square, 2 more points will cover another 162m square area, and so on. The Warding spell will remain in effect until the props are removed. Anyone but the caster who attempts to touch the stakes will touch off and be affected by the spell. But after suffering the Warding's effect, the sufferer can then remove the stakes. If the caster pulls up the stakes, he regains the use of his spell with proper prayer. The stakes need not be visible to work. Now, the problem I have is this, I can bury my wands x metres below the ground and the warding will extend to 3 metres above *Ground Level*. What is ground level? if it's below a castle wall, does it extend up to 3m above the top of the parapet? >>(2) The RoC blurb states that Daka Fal cult members are not >>permitted to join other cults, does this include spirit cults? > > Probably not. This is a reference to the inability to join both >Divine and Shamanic traditions. Daka Fal is a Shamanic tradition and >is not a 'religious cult', even though it has more rune spells than >normal 'spirit cults'. The obvious distinction for my opinion is that >Daka Fal is ruled by shamans 'that act as priests', not by priests. >Religions and cults are ruled by priests or by rune lords 'that act as >priests'. Shamanic traditions don't have rune lords. > Faiths that can go either way, depending on the follower, include >Zola Fel and Waha, but even these groups insist that you choose either >Divine or Shamanic worship. >Bob Stancliff Thanks for that, I'll definitely adopt that. Cheers, Jim Lawrie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:47:21 EST From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Wardings from Perrin - --part1_e6.111f240d.27b1f519_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/6/01 3:38:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, jimpeta@primus.com.au writes: > Now, the problem I have is this, I can bury my wands x metres below the > ground and the warding will extend to 3 metres above *Ground Level*. What is > ground level? if it's below a castle wall, does it extend up to 3m above the > top of the parapet? > Intent of the Warding spell (which, if I remember correctly, I invented) was for the warding to follow the flow of the ground. If you put stakes of a warding on each side of a ravine, it would cover the ground between the stakes (and each meter of that ground would count, not just the distance between the two stakes) and it is entirely likely that a bird flying between the stakes and over the ravine would not set it off. Essentially, the warding probably would not work buried in the walls of a castle. Part of them must be exposed to the air (so it would work as part of the defense of the top of a castle wall). In its basic form the warding covers the wand and 3 meters above the wand. If you lay the wand flat, all you get is 3 meters of coverage, though I might well rule that the wand has to be set upright to work. Probably not, though, with some thought on the subject. I could certainly see a point of warding being put toward height, rather than area. And looking at this, I think that the wards probably don't go through things like rocks and thick trees, either. For rocks, at least, the distance to go over the rock would count as part of the distance between wands. Perhaps the warding would go through a living tree. But a tall tree with a warding going through it would be a hole in the defenses because it could be (if tall enough) climbed over without ever tripping the ward. Besides, making the warding user clear a path between wards strikes me as a good limitation on the spell. Steve Perrin, putting on the rule writing hat. - --part1_e6.111f240d.27b1f519_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/6/01 3:38:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jimpeta@primus.com.au writes:


Now, the problem I have is this, I can bury my wands x metres below the
ground and the warding will extend to 3 metres above *Ground Level*. What is
ground level? if it's below a castle wall, does it extend up to 3m above the
top of the parapet?


Intent of the Warding spell (which, if I remember correctly, I invented) was
for the warding to follow the flow of the ground. If you put stakes of a
warding on each side of a ravine, it would cover the ground between the
stakes (and each meter of that ground would count, not just the distance
between the two stakes) and it is entirely likely that a bird flying between
the stakes and over the ravine would not set it off.

Essentially, the warding probably would not work buried in the walls of a
castle. Part of them must be exposed to the air (so it would work as part of
the defense of the top of a castle wall). In its basic form the warding
covers the wand and 3 meters above the wand. If you lay the wand flat, all
you get is 3 meters of coverage, though I might well rule that the wand has
to be set upright to work. Probably not, though, with some thought on the
subject.

I  could certainly see a point of warding being put toward height, rather
than area.

And looking at this, I think that the wards probably don't go through things
like rocks and thick trees, either. For rocks, at least, the distance to go
over the rock would count as part of the distance between wands. Perhaps the
warding would go through a living tree. But a tall tree with a warding going
through it would be a hole in the defenses because it could be (if tall
enough) climbed over without ever tripping the ward.

Besides, making the warding user clear a path between wards strikes me as a
good limitation on the spell.

Steve Perrin, putting on the rule writing hat.
- --part1_e6.111f240d.27b1f519_boundary-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:59:12 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Wardings and Spirit Cults > Jim Lawrie > Now, the problem I have is this, I can bury my wands x > meters below the ground and the warding will extend to > 3 meters above *Ground Level*. What is ground level? > if it's below a castle wall, does it extend up to 3m > above the top of the parapet? I'm amazed you typed the entire Warding description, but it IS handy. What you have is clearly a conflict between the letter and the spirit of the law. > Warding 1 Point > Ritual(Enchant),Stackable,Conditionally Reusable,Common > This ritual spell creates an area of safety for those > inside. It requires four wands exactly 15 centimeters > long as props. The wands can be made of any material, > and can be so spaced as to enclose a maximum area of up > to 81 square meters. If you wanted to be completely legalistic, then you would have to go out into an open field, shove your sticks into the ground (with your hands), in a rectangular pattern (right angles), and cast your enchantment ritual. At this point, none of your questions would matter because you would be casting it in the fashion it was written. Anything that violates this picture is a re-interpretation and requires either judgment or a referee's ruling. > The spell extends into the air for 3 meters, > and underground to the depth of the prop stakes. This makes the ideal Warding 3.15m x 9m x 9m, but notice that it encloses an area, not a volume. By the text, the box has no top or bottom. If the Ward has to stick 3m into atmosphere, and you buried the sticks at the bottom of a 6m high curtain wall with a 9m x 9m area, and you still managed to cast the spell on sticks you couldn't see, this would give you an enclosure 9m x 9m x 9m. You would have tripled your height with no increase in cost. Getting something for nothing should be considered a violation of magical principles and is certainly a violation of fairness and game balance which should never be allowed. Don't let the players coerce you on this... they deserve the right to be flexible, but not abusive. > The activated wands connect invisibly to form a barrier > detectable only by magical means. The protection afforded > by the Warding is initiated when physical or spirit > enemies of the caster cross the barrier, or when a spell > is cast across the barrier from the outside. When this > happens a loud noise (a keening, whistling, booming, etc.) > begins which may be suppressed by the casting priest. > Each point of Warding counts as 1 point of Countermagic > (see the spirit magic description) against spells cast > across the barrier, 2 points of Spirit Resistance (see > the sorcery spell description) against outside spirits, > and it does as well 1D3 points of damage, ignoring armor, > to one hit location of any corporal enemy that crosses > the boundary. The spell says nothing about the wands being at different levels or what would happen if you turned the imaginary box on it's side (or upside down). Notice they say 'cross the barrier' when they mean 'pass through the barrier'. By this wording, no matter how high the enemy is, crossing the line would trigger the alarm and do the 1d3 damage. That is, unless the Ward actually forms a box with a top and bottom... then crossing the barrier should equate to passing through the barrier. If the Ward is only four walls, then the spirit resistance is a joke since all spirits can fly or tunnel (probably both), and can pass around the barrier at will. Also, any flying opponent could cast spells down into the area and be unblocked. ** POSSIBLE HOUSE RULE Thus, by logical interpretation and fairness for all users, Warding should enclose a volume of 243 cubic meters (3x3x3x3x3), not an area, and it can pass through solid matter. The sticks mark the lower dimensions of the box, and the height (from the base of the sticks) is computed by division. Anything that passes into the volume will trigger the Ward effects, and no direction is unprotected. Under the new rule, each points doubles the previous volume or adds to the intensity, and the decision is made at casting. > Alternatively, the added points of Warding can > be used to increase the area protected: an additional point > will cover up to another 81m square, 2 more points will > cover another 162m square area, and so on. > The Warding spell will remain in effect until the props > are removed. Anyone but the caster who attempts to touch > the stakes will touch off and be affected by the spell. > But after suffering the Warding's effect, the sufferer > can then remove the stakes. If the caster pulls up the > stakes, he regains the use of his spell with proper prayer. > The stakes need not be visible to work. Notice that the sticks have to be accessible, since, if the spell goes down, the caster has to pick them all up and return them to the temple sanctum to regain the spell. This makes it bad for the priest that buries them deep inside the temple walls (with no access panels). Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:51:24 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Wardings and Spirit Cults > I'm amazed you typed the entire Warding description, but it IS handy. >What you have is clearly a conflict between the letter and the spirit >of the law. Actually, the scanner did it all, but it's only for 'critique purposes' so I don't feel I'm violating the law by disseminating it on an list (I had a real strip torn off me on another list by a lawyer) >** POSSIBLE HOUSE RULE > Thus, by logical interpretation and fairness for all users, Warding >should enclose a volume of 243 cubic meters (3x3x3x3x3), not an area, >and it can pass through solid matter. The sticks mark the lower >dimensions of the box, and the height (from the base of the sticks) is >computed by division. Anything that passes into the volume will >trigger the Ward effects, and no direction is unprotected. > Under the new rule, each points doubles the previous volume or adds >to the intensity, and the decision is made at casting. > >> Alternatively, the added points of Warding can >> be used to increase the area protected: an additional point >> will cover up to another 81m square, 2 more points will >> cover another 162m square area, and so on. >> The Warding spell will remain in effect until the props >> are removed. Anyone but the caster who attempts to touch >> the stakes will touch off and be affected by the spell. >> But after suffering the Warding's effect, the sufferer >> can then remove the stakes. If the caster pulls up the >> stakes, he regains the use of his spell with proper prayer. >> The stakes need not be visible to work. > Notice that the sticks have to be accessible, since, if the spell >goes down, the caster has to pick them all up and return them to the >temple sanctum to regain the spell. This makes it bad for the priest >that buries them deep inside the temple walls (with no access panels). >Bob Stancliff I like that, it also suggests that you could manufacture more wands for irregular shapes to keep the volume correct. I personally allow other things than wands to be used, but not using wands causes the object to glow with a soft light (colour depending on the element of the good). Little figurines and idols get used for the purpose in our campaigns, ie: a Death god might uses small daggers stuck into the ground etc. For the purposes of burying wands, Gnomes make good tunnels . . . Jim Lawrie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:15:51 +1100 From: Bruce Probst Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Wardings and Spirit Cults On Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:00:40 +1100, "Jim & Peta Lawrie" wrote: >(2) The RoC blurb states that Daka Fal cult members are not permited to >join other cults, does this include spirit cults? In my game, I don't see any particular problem with it. Spirit cults are not divine cults in the "normal" sense (it's hard to describe them as cults at all, really), they're accessed only by shamans (that can rustle up 100+ worshippers). You could, however, decree that Daka Fal shamans are loners, who deal *only* with ancestors, and other shamans in the tribe are needed to deal with non-ancestral spirits. I wouldn't use it as a hard-and-fast rule in my game, but I could certainly understand someone else using it in their game. (I would say that in my game I would declare that Daka Fal shamans are *usually* loners, and therefore *usually* will not worship any non-ancestral spirits. So in the end it amounts to much the same thing.) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830 Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://users.senet.com.au/~mantis/ASLFAQ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #3 *********************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.