Re: Larnsti and other topics

From: jeffrichard68 <richj_at_...>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 00:35:24 -0000

Peter, let me start with a bit of an overview of my take on the Kill Orlanth project. I think that it is more interesting, more fun, and creates more opportunities if the Lunars have been planning for some time to Kill Orlanth. As OiD states, "killing Orlanth" is a necessary precondition for the Reaching Moon Project (see sidebox pg. 45). Although I don't think that Whitewall was initially identified as where Orlanth must die - something allowed the Lunars to identify the fall of Whitewall as the Death of Orlanth.

I prefer that not to be some sort of petty vengeance for the insult of killing the Crimson Bat - but some big aspect of a big Lunar plot: the Reaching Moon Project and the final victory over the Rebel Gods. That's my thematic intent - it makes this a very interesting story that can tie in lots and lots of threads. As well as it is a fitting beginning for the start of the Hero Wars.

The idea that the Hero Wars is some sort of Barbara Tuchman rip-off bores me.

> >Do they trace back to Hendreik the Free (or whatever he called
> >himself)?
> I think the Larnsti have always been around but Hendreik was the
> first to organize them as protectors of Heortland.

At first I was going to disagree with this, but maybe you're right - maybe the Larnsti can be traced to the shapeshifting Hidden Kings and their companions. This ties the Larnsti into surviving the Darkness, protection of the Vingkotlings and Heort - which would make sense why Hendreik would invoke them for protection from the HCLG.
> >If they are Hendreik's heroband, maybe they are simply the
> >of Hendreiki liberties.
> In the original writeup, they were the defenders of Heortland
> But they were ousted from that role by King Andrin and replaced by
> the Sheriffs.

Which would make sense why they are with the Volsaxar High Kings.

> But if the Death of Orlanth was crucial to the success of the
> Reaching Moon Project then how come the latter goes ahead
> despite the Battle of Iceland? Methinks there's two different
> magical rituals at work.

Because the Death of Orlanth is what we lawyers call a condition precedent - an even that must happen or be performed before the agreement becomes effective. You have to Kill Orlanth before you can begin construction of the Reaching Moon Temple.

> At the very earliest, the Reaching Moon Temple was planned during
> the reign of Ignifer (1598) and executed by the governor general
> (it isn't a Dara Happan plot as the Tarshites invested major
> resources in their own temple).

OiD contradicts this. Here's the relevant paragraph on Pg. 45:

"The Reaching Moon Temple (near the Old Wind Temple) is being built upon a new design. The whole Empire is solidly defended by a series of Yara Aranis temples that are strictly regulated in design, personnel, and calender. The Sartar temple is an experiment..... The designers first proved that it would work to many priests and bureaucrats; then to high priests and administrators; and finally to the Emperor himself, who in 1580 S.T. ordered the plan funded and implemented. Worship groups were seeded and linked to the process, and it has continued since then, stalled more often by politics than by enemy action, but never stopped."

"The Assiday Family has its entire fortune riding on this, and it looks like it will prove a worthy gamble. Tatius has the resources and now the command to complete it. This success will prove them superior to all the rival families in Dara Happa and will catapult them to importance in the Empire. They will get power from the Moon and wealth from the Imperial coffers to do this job. They are banking to dominate the Empire's future magical works. The Lunar magic requires many large tasks to be finished, all of which have their esoteric requirements too complex to explain here. However, when Whitewall fell, they met the conditions for "Killing Orlanth.""

So here's my theory: during the initial invasion of Heortland in 1619, Whitewall was simply an important Heortling Rebel fortress - like Runegate. Fazzur bypassed it, but left Jorkandros and a significant force (including the Bat) to reduce it so that it did not disrupt his rear. Jorkandros prepared a text-book assault - and somehow Broyan defeated the Bat and the assault! I think that Broyan managed to identify himself on a mythic level with the king of Orlanthi people (Vingkot) to do this.

Tatius the Bright seizes this opportunity - Whitewall is the Stead of Orlanth! He has Jorkandros removed and takes over the preparations for the assault on Whitewall, with the intent to kill Orlanth.

> >Also interesting is that the really creative Lunar heroquesters
> >(e.g., Jar-Eel) are not involved in this. Instead, this is the
> >Emperor-approved obsession of an old-school Raibanthi aristocratic
> >clan (presumably the Assidays can trace themselves back to a DH
> >Emperor).
> I don't think the stigmatization of the Assidays as old school
> as accurate. They are just as creative and innovative as
> Jar Eel and are just as likely to trace their descent from a
> Lunar Emperor than a Dara Happan one.

Yes and no. The Assidays are very creative and brilliant innovators. However, they are Dara Happan in perspective - I think they do not in some fundamental manner understand the Orlanthi myth.

> >- frankly I don't think that the siege itself is
> >that big of a deal in the Lunar Heartlands.
> Why did the Emperor declare a Extra Full Moon Year
> in celebration? So why is the Emperor upset when he
> hears the news about Broyan's escape?

Once Tatius takes over the siege, the ritual of killing Orlanth has begun. Prior to that, I don't think the siege is that big of a deal. The Emperor is upset because Orlanth might not be dead - which means that the condition precedent might not have been satisfied.

> >Tatius' assault on
> >Whitewall is the culmination of decades of planning.
> I strongly doubt this. Tatius is only sent to Whitewall _after_
> that city repels the Bat. That's not evidence of decades in
> planning. Moreover the best plans are ones that adapt themselves
> to circumstances, not ones that mark certain locations out
> decades in advance and stack everything upon them.

Sorry, I should have said that Tatius's ritual assault on Whitewall -  on Orlanth's Stead (or whatever we say this is) - is the culmination of decades of planning.

> >Now it is possible - and even likely - that Jorkandros is not
> >to fulfill the Kill Orlanth project when he makes his assault on
> >Whitewall in 1619. Using the Crimson Bat to level WW could just
> >standard operating procedure. However, defeating the Crimson Bat -
> >or maybe certain identifications made by Broyan and the
defenders -
> >triggered the criteria for using the Kill Orlanth project.

I agree.

> I wouldn't describe it as a Kill Orlanth project but an Enslave
> Orlanth project. And Whitewall's identification was enabled
> by its continued defiance long after the rest of Heortland had
> fallen.

No, I think Orlanth must be killed to start construction of the Temple of the Reaching Moon. An enslaved Orlanth is dead.

> Whatever the circumstances of his appointment, I don't think
Tatius took
> command as part of the plot to enslave Orlanth. Rather he took
> to earn kudos and finds himself at the centre of the Enslave
Orlanth plot
> a few seasons into the siege after the rest of Whitewall has
fallen. Much
> of the rest of the siege is fighting of attempts by Fazzur and
others to
> usurp command. At the same time, his frustrations towards the
> continued defiance is worsening (a RW parallel is Alexander meting
out a
> much worse fate to Tyre than he actually did to the Persian
capital). His
> heart hardens and he begins to warp the ritual into killing

I disagree. See above. Frankly, Tatius does not need to earn kudos. I think he is a much bigger player in Imperial politics than Fazzur or Sor-Eel or his kinsman Euglyptus.

> I don't think that Broyan is necessarily aware of what exactly the
> Lunars are trying to do considering that most armies have great
> difficulty in reading the intentions of what the other side is
> planning (gloranthan example: Nights of Horrors). He is aware of
> major magic in the wind and performs a ritual of his own in
> But the realization that the Lunars intend to kill Orlanth should
> quite late in the siege and become a real morale blow for the
> defenders.

Yep. I think 1621. Broyan's response is what makes him a remarkable hero.


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