Since relatively little has been written, and the Imperial Army has been in a state of flux in recent years, that's for others to decide. In retrospect I would certainly tone down the assertion with regard to the provenance of vexillae troops, but do hold to one that it is far more common a phenomenon among Lunarised units. Units which accept the basic concept of vexillisation--which is afterall a military philosophy and magic borrowed from the larger Sedenyic ideal- -are more likely to accommodate to its use. And effectively at that.
Of course, it is more interesting from a gaming context to have a stubborn detachment of Dara Happans break their 10,000s years old traditions and knit with Lunar elements, but thematically I would suggest that vexillae composed of Lunar elements are substantially (interpret as you will) more common, yes.
> My understanding is that the whole idea of vexillia was that YT
> officers could lead combined groups of soldiers in spite of the
> fact that they had different traditions, methods of fighting and
> even spoke different languages. I appreciate that's going to be
> difficult which is why it is such powerful magic.
Members of 'Lunarised' regiments still hold different traditions, laguages (not all will be fluent in New Pelorian: Regimentssprache vs. Kommandosprache for those followers of the Austro-Hungarian army here, an interesting analogue on some levels) and regimental gods, so the magic is still powerful and useful if you follow the above argument.
Vexilla formation was naturally very important in ability to forge disparate elements into an effective force to fight for the Goddess in the early Wanes, no doubt. The situation the Imperial Army and the Ordenviru (themselves distasteful of such ventures, according to Martin) face is a complex one of further intra-army proselytization versus efficacy. When it comes to the crunch, I still believe that political and religious issues will define the make-up of vexilla in an operational situation, yep.
> If that's restricted to Lunar units, a minority of the army, then
> some of the most effective units are going to be unable to co-
operate
> with each other.
Yep! I actually like that, though YGMV of course. Though as I admitted above, I would tone down my pro-Lunar assertions. Them's the breaks. Some things don't mix well, no matter the 'magic' applied, and for a variety of reasons. As a belligerent example, what would happen if I tried to get 2 Para and 45 Commando to operate side-by- side on a company level?
> But even using vexillia with non-lunar units I don't see any
> particular advantage in splitting up and mixing units of different
> fighting styles in major battles or sieges. To me the vexillia is
> a way of getting the advantage of different troops into small
> independent forces outside the normal chain of command. Furthermore
> that requires a lot of knowledge by the commander - a relatively
> junior officer has to understand the strengths and weaknesses of
> all the troops under his command, not just the regiment they have
> served with. So competent officers to command vexillia are going
> to be rare - probably a bigger restriction on the use of vexillia
> than troops.
I agree that officer ability intuition is the key in getting vexillae to work, but personally believe the levels of open-mindedness, attention to duty and devotion to Sedenyic principles that aid this are found to a fair degree in junior Lunar officers. The relative link with this and efficacy of vexillae can be argued ad infinitum.
As I appreciate it, your statement "To me the vexilla is a way of getting the advantage of different troops into small independent forces outside the normal chain of command" applies on the tactical level as well as the greater operational level. My argument is essentially the same, although applied to 'regimental level' assaults by combined forces on a fortress sector.
Now while I'm quite happy to disagree cordially over military details, I'd have to admit slight (though still cordial!) umbrage at this. To my knowledge, I've never specifically argued against the use of non-vexillated troops; though I have waved the flag (or should that be vexillum?) for the use of vexillae, I haven't aimed to prohibit other units or styles of command. My contestation on an increased 'Lunar' element follows other commentators, and, for example, the increasing influence of the CoM.
I'm therefore at a loss to see why we might exclude the concept of special vexilla in an assault. The ability to weld a variety of soldiers of different weapons and magic poses a tacical quandry to a foe as well as an operational level benefit. Being assaulted by several companies of peltasts or heavy infantry is problematic; being assorted by companies of Steel Swords, trolls, skirmishers, magi and trolls acting in a local, magically enhanced heroband for me anyway provides a more baffling and effective foe. Especially if taken from beyond what the Heortlings appreciate to be the besieging forces.
With all this talk of the Bat, magical rituals to come out of your ears and everything else, I'm a little curious as to why the 'Lunars' might not take key elements of their forces in Heortland and combine them into vexillae that maximise their abilities. For me at least, they abrogate any problems with breaking unit cohesion, and provide a very dangerous foe for the defenders in the given circumstances. It also, as I firstly stated, readily allows for a multiplicity of units; sure, if we boost the numbers we get more chrome, but this allows chrome aplenty for those who like it.
In simple parlance, "Vexillae allow extra cool stuff at no penalty, 'nuff said."
Well, I don't think I can explain my position any more or better, so I yield the floor to Donald for a final riposte.
Stu.
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