Re: Re: Vexillae

From: donald_at_...
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:48:20 GMT


In message <c2f8h4+ekcm_at_...> "Stewart Stansfield" writes:
>> Is this canon? or even GAG?
>
>Since relatively little has been written, and the Imperial Army has
>been in a state of flux in recent years, that's for others to decide.
>In retrospect I would certainly tone down the assertion with regard
>to the provenance of vexillae troops, but do hold to one that it is
>far more common a phenomenon among Lunarised units. Units which
>accept the basic concept of vexillisation--which is afterall a
>military philosophy and magic borrowed from the larger Sedenyic ideal-
>-are more likely to accommodate to its use. And effectively at that.
>
>Of course, it is more interesting from a gaming context to have a
>stubborn detachment of Dara Happans break their 10,000s years old
>traditions and knit with Lunar elements, but thematically I would
>suggest that vexillae composed of Lunar elements are substantially
>(interpret as you will) more common, yes.

I don't have a problem with it being more common, just the restriction to only Lunar units.

> When it comes to the crunch, I still believe that
>political and religious issues will define the make-up of vexilla in
>an operational situation, yep.

I think in the Lunar army political and religious issues will often override military considerations.

>Yep! I actually like that, though YGMV of course. Though as I
>admitted above, I would tone down my pro-Lunar assertions. Them's the
>breaks. Some things don't mix well, no matter the 'magic' applied,
>and for a variety of reasons. As a belligerent example, what would
>happen if I tried to get 2 Para and 45 Commando to operate side-by-
>side on a company level?

The same thing that would happen if you put a company of the Beryl Phalanx together with a company of the Granite Phalanx. That's not what Vexillia are used for, a modern equivelent would be putting a tank company and an infantry company together with a TA medical team for a specific mission.

>Now while I'm quite happy to disagree cordially over military
>details, I'd have to admit slight (though still cordial!) umbrage at
>this. To my knowledge, I've never specifically argued against the use
>of non-vexillated troops; though I have waved the flag (or should
>that be vexillum?) for the use of vexillae, I haven't aimed to
>prohibit other units or styles of command. My contestation on an
>increased 'Lunar' element follows other commentators, and, for
>example, the increasing influence of the CoM.

I didn't think I'd implied you were saying troops always operated in vexillia and certainly didn't mean to.

>I'm therefore at a loss to see why we might exclude the concept of
>special vexilla in an assault. The ability to weld a variety of
>soldiers of different weapons and magic poses a tacical quandry to a
>foe as well as an operational level benefit. Being assaulted by
>several companies of peltasts or heavy infantry is problematic; being
>assorted by companies of Steel Swords, trolls, skirmishers, magi and
>trolls acting in a local, magically enhanced heroband for me anyway
>provides a more baffling and effective foe. Especially if taken from
>beyond what the Heortlings appreciate to be the besieging forces.

More baffling certainly but I'm not convinced about effectiveness, which is why I don't see vexillia commonly used in this way. A heavy infantry regiment is the most effective assault force in a siege with the possible exception of berserkers. Splitting that regiment up and adding skirmishers etc. diffuses and weakens the attack rather than enhancing it. Equally the unit's own magicans will be more effective at supporting them than someone from one of the CoM.

>Well, I don't think I can explain my position any more or better, so
>I yield the floor to Donald for a final riposte.

ISTM the issue is basically whether vexillia are inherently better in most circumstances as you are arguing or a tool which allows independent small scale (less than regiment) combined arms operations. Probably unresolveable without input and a lot of discussion from several other people.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/

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