Re: Re: PEOPLE: Broyan and the Larnsti

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_...>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:47:37 +1300

Joerg wrote:

> >Broyan is described as ultratraditionalist [and so wouldn't
> >recognize the pharoah to gain entrance to the City of Wonders]

>This is a case of using an enemy's weakness. In love and war,
>everything is allowed.

Nevetheless for very conservative enemies, there are some things that are not countenanced. The Pure Horse Tribe got its butt kicked because it refused to arm women (KoS p193). Having been part of a kingdom that fought against the pharaoh for so long, it seems very odd for an described ultratraditionalist to have compromised his principles in such a way.

> >But Larnsti is no longer a Celestial Court deity - he's not even the
> >Great God of Motion. Krarsht's bite was a very bad one.
>However, that change occurred after Larnste's hobbling away.
>( says:

A God Learner prosopaedia. What would they know?

>In a document dating from 1998, Greg wrote:

>"God of Change, member of the Gloranthan Court. Larnste was the entity
>which first brought variance to the world. Larnste first imitated the
>one Spike with the Four Mountains, then the Rockwood Range. Larnste
>allowed the waters to wash over the surface world, the mating of
>Aether and Gata, and many other radical actions. Larnste is not
>worshipped in modern times, and is considered the origin of the
>Movement/Change rune."

An unpublished document which Greg had no qualms about contradicting when he saw the Larnste.

> >He is listed in the
> >same section as Vogarth the Strong Man who is not an Orlanthi.

>What makes you think that Vogarth was not an initiate of Orlanth?

Because he has a history outside the Orlanthi which is described in "Morden defends the camp".

> >Larnste and Orlanth are separate gods.

>Mastakos and Orlanth are separate gods, too - not even from the same
>elemental tribe,

Only the God Learners make such a statement. There's not a hint of it in Heortling myth.

> yet Mastakos is worshipped as an aspect of Orlanth.

He's not. He's a subcult of Orlanth and is still separate from Orlanth in the same way that Harst, Drogarsi, Helamakt and others are.

> >>They have displaced the communal worship of the Spirit of Hendreik
> >>from the Andrinic clan rites by their pharaonic version, I suppose?

> >No. The Andrini still worship Hendreik.

>In a way that the Pharaoh profits from it, magically.

I am bemused by the attempts to objectively portray the Pharaoh as a bad god who has only his interests at heart. The kings of Sartar profited magically from the cult of Sartar but we never hear similar analysis about how they weakened the tribes of Sartar by their acts. The Emperor of Kralorela rules by a similar method but scarcely anybody describes him as a wicked leech.

Yes, the Pharaoh does receive magic from Heortland. There's nothing intrinsically wrong in that nor does it weaken Heortland as a whole.

> >The silence of the Larnsti indicates however that they don't have
> >an opinion on the Andrini reforms. As a result of this, many clans
> >accept Andrin's reforms. This goes much further than not revolting
> >openly.
>How about:

>At the emergence of the EWF, the silence of the Larnsti indicated
>however that they didn't have an opinion on the Dragonfriend reforms.
>As a result of this, many clans accepted the newly-fangled Draconic ways.

Except that the EWF didn't extend into Heortland as it was an ally (of sorts) of the Only Old One. The main foes were the God Learners whom it is said that the Hendreiki survived by "clinging to their ancient freedoms and remaining true to them".

> >No, he's not. The Larnsti can do effective magic which is not true for
> >most Dayzatar priests.

>I was talking about divine statements on social developments, not
>nifty magics.

Except that the social development happens to be an alleged major impact of the magical freedom of the Heortlanders. So Larnste would comment on that.

> >Secondly there were Vingkotling Kings in Volsaxar before Broyan
> >and he owes his position in part to inheritance.

>Who? Hardrard the Green?

Yes. A chief feature about Vingkotling Kings is that they hold their title through traceable descent from Orlanth.

>There is nothing at all
>to indicate that Hardrard was a Vingkotling king.

So Broyan converts the elective title of Volsaxar kingship into a hereditary one and nobody complains? Even in Tarsh, that change provoked a major rebellion.

>The Orvantes are said to be a Star Tribe (despite being named like a
>Vingkotling Summer Tribe).

I have no idea what the Orvantes have to do with the leadership practices of the Volsaxar. Could you explain further?

> >Larnste is not a subcult of Orlanth.

>Do you have positive proof for that?

Look at the scale and capability of Larnste's magic. Not only what Sartar did, but the mythical events that Larnste was capable of doing (soul arranger etc). Does that look reducible to a single subcult to you?

--Peter Metcalfe

Powered by hypermail