> >>...bats are not necessarily Gliders.
>
> Are you trying to imply that the Bat might be flapping its wings at this
> distance from Whitewall, rather than just gliding in for the last
bodylength
> or two? Wouldn't a downward flap of a 1km to 1.5km wing drop more than
> 1,000ft? That makes the problem *worse* - now it's grounding its wings
> without being attacked!
Have you ever *seen* a bat fly? Going after insects, they are making corrective maneuvers all the time. This isn't the Crimson Condor, lazily gliding on thermals, only flapping its wings once a minute or two. Neither is it the Crimson Falcon, tucking in its wings to do a power dive against its target. It's a BAT. We've come to the agreement that it is derived from an Insect-Eating bat. it is maneuverable, and yes, agile. Sure it's hundreds, if not thousands of feet long. So what? I'll take it's batness over it's size when determining how it flies.
> All of which is, I'm sure, quite true, but agility doesn't enter into it.
> We're talking about the point in time when it's less than two bodylengths
> from Whitewall - a bit late for "steering". Anyway, for MGF, I'd suggest
> that the Bat will have its wings fully spread as it prepares to attack
> Whitewall. Isn't that how you envision the Bat? A huge, slow,
ponderous,
> monstrous thing? You wouldn't narrate it darting about like a humming
> bird, would you?
No, but I don't envision a "B52 at 1000 ft" either. (actually, the relative sizes is more like "B52 at 20 feet"). Size-wise, I compare it to the opening sequence in StarWars 4 - when the Princess Leiea's ship passes over and you say "Wow"! Then the Imperial StarDestroyer goes over head, and goes over head, and goes overhead. And you go "oh...my...gosh." but in manerverability it's more like the Millenium Falcon going through the asteroid field in Empire Strikes back. Not as agile as the TIE fighters, but a hell of a lot better than a StarDestroyer.
The Bat is not coming in for feeding, so there's no need for it to be so low. It's carpet bombing from a nice safe altitude (well, it would be, if there wasn't a storm, and people on it's back that it is trying to shake off...), Or it can be dive bombing. It needn't be as low (or as big) as you are claiming, nor flying "straight and level".
> *Sigh* OK - let's assume the extremely unlikely scenario of it
> "torpedoing" at Whitewall. Let's assume its wings are fully "retracted".
> It's the attack of the Empire's feared, flying Crimson Mouse. It's 1km
> long at this time, right? At an attitude of 1,000ft (not 1,000m). So
how
> much do you need to tilt it along this axis to put its head or its bum
down?
It doesn't have to pivot around its center - bats are extremely maneuverable, and can skim the surface without "bottoming out". So can birds, and insects....
> Roderick, with all due respect, I think you're *still* completely failing
to
> comprehend the size of the Bat in comparison to Whitewall and in
comparison
> to its supposed altitude. It just isn't possible for something this size
> to be doing aerial acrobatics at this point in the space-time continuum,
> mate. Suck it up.
It's not possible for this thing to *exist* at this point in the S-T continuum.
What I think *you're* not failing to comprehend is that bats are extremely agile, maneuverable creatures. Even huge, chaotic, illuminated, moon-dwelling bats. If you want a gliding creature doing a "bomb-run", choose something else.
> >>It's a God. It doesn't (necessarily)
> >>obey the laws of Physics... If
> >>we're going to ignore one physical
> >>law, might as well ignore more.
>
> Yeah, I'm right up for that. No problem. But you just *can't* ignore
the
> fact that (from its point of view) the Bat is almost on the ground and
> almost touching Whitewall *as it starts to Scream*. You *can't* expect
> people to suspend enough disbelief to get aerobatics in *at this
altitude*.
> We have to get it higher somehow OR forget the "Snoopy & the Red Baron"
> stuff.
I refute the idea that it needs to be that close. The scream has a 1-mile radius (not diameter), so it could conceivably be 5 times higher than your estimate. And the bat doesn't need to fly "straight and level" to scream - it can swoop up, down or sideways to do it. Hell, the thing could start it's run from its base on the moon, scream, and *still* pull out before it pancaked against the ground (under normal circumstances, which Whitewall is not...).
Matthew:
> Sounds difficult, given that even the least physics-minded of us
> immediately can tell that something that large shouldn't be able to make
> sudden changes in any kind of movement. I just don't buy the whole "it's
> magic so it just does!" explanation; that was one of the reasons I
> dropped D&D (before the A was concatentated to the beginning).
...
> Now I come to its fight with the dragon and their joint defeat (or
> victory). I see the dragon either swooping on the bat and them tumbling
> through the air biting and clawing, giving off great gouts of magic and
> scaring the living shyte out of everything for miles around, crashing
> into the ground still fighting (causing some serious damage to a lot of
> somethings) or some sort of chase scene that takes them high, almost to
> the heavens, where they can have some room to manoevure and where the
> narrative can show off the power and majesty of both creatures.
So, you can believe in a flying, six-limbed lizard the size of a mountain that is manueverable, but not a bat? I think you need to whack one of your disbelief meters, it's stuck.
> Still can't allow myself to write "the bat flapped it's wings in
> complicated movements, executing a full turn as it arced up away from
> its frighteningly steep descent towards the quivering city of
> Whitewall."; I can, however, concede to it having some ability at
> gliding.
Go find a book on bats, or catch a program about them on TV, or something, then tell me they "have some ability at gliding".
Look guys, IT IS A BAT. Bats fly a certain way. Making it huge shouldn't invalidate it's innate Bat-ness. Otherwise why bother calling it a bat? Might as well say it's a Mother Ship from "Independence Day".
RR
It is by my order and for the good of the state that the bearer of this has
done what he has done.
- Richelieu
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