His long period in command does suggest a level of competence; perhaps he's militarily incompetant but a formidable pen-pusher and bureaucrat; 11 years behind a desk would go a long way towards explaining his nickname "the Fat"!
I suspect he might possibly have been present, possibly in command (or 2nd in command) at Runegate in 1602 (where Fazzur was present commanding a brigade); at least I don't think anyone else is named in this capacity (and I have a great miniature for him I am yearning to paint). I presume the red Emporer commanded the army at Boldhome.
Simon
simon.miller_at_...
>-- Original Message --
>To: whitewall_at_yahoogroups.com
>From: Jane Williams <janewilliams20_at_...>
>Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:06:02 +0100 (BST)
>Subject: Euglyptus
>Reply-To: whitewall_at_yahoogroups.com
>
>
>> simon.miller_at_...:
>
>> > Can anyone suggest where I might find any info on
>> Euglyptus (other than
>> > the line or two in .. KoS.
>> ... I am keen to find out a bit more about him.
>>
>> Generally accepted wisdom: senior member of the
>> Assiday family, front man
>> for the able cousin Tatius. Neither Tatius nor
>> Euglyptus appear to be good
>> at military tactics. Euglyptus in addition failed to
>> recognize the
>> Building Wall magic and the ramifications of the
>> Starbrow Rebellion.
>
>Though it's worth remembering that he did rule Sartar
>from 1602 to 1613 without any major disasters until
>the end. Not bad going. He's no military genius,
>agreed, but keeping the economic and political side of
>things going that long implies he isn't a complete
>incompetent.
>
>I'm trying to find out/invent more about him myself,
>mainly in terms of personality and motivations, so
>perhaps we should get together off-list on this.
>
>(Yes, off THIS list, anyway. By the time of Whitewall,
>he's been dead for years.)
>
>My own particular interest is the 1602-1604 period,
>when he was supposed to be tracking down what was left
>of the Sartar bloodline and destroying it, yet managed
>to keep Kallyr as a (live) prisoner for two years. All
>looks very suspicious to me! But without some idea of
>his personality, motivations, and competence, I've got
>real trouble figuring out what he was trying to do.
>
>
>
>=====
>Jane Williams
>
>
>
>
>
>From me_at_privacy.net Mon 02 Aug 14:49:57 2004
From: simon.miller_at_...
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Having discussed names for ranks in the lunar army over the weekend, I?ve done a little research.
The use of the term ?Legate? for the Staff officers/sub commanders of a Lunar force feels a little awkward to me on account of its fairly specific historical use as the commander of a Roman Legion, or envoy.
On the other hand, I very much like terms such as Polemarch much better because they are less familiar, and have a Greek overtone, which feels appropriate for use with the Lunar Army. This got me thinking about what other Greek ranks exist that might be useable in a Gloranthan format; I?m by no means an expert on Greek, but Google has been a great help and I?ve come up with the following useful terms.
I should also mention I haven?t got access to quite a few of the more recent Heroquest publications, so apologies in advance if they have invented a hearty of ranks I know nothing of. Nor do I know much of Dara Happans, I?m thinking very much along Lunar lines. I also apologise because this is a bit out of the scope of the Whitewall group.
The roles that I am most interested in are the regimental commands of the (typically 1000 man) infantry regiments, and 500 man cavalry regiments; also the army commander and the staff officers /sub Generals.
There are some directly relevant Greek terms that would fit most units the Lunar OOB:-
Chiliarch - a commander of 1,000 infantry ? (Chiliarchia = 1000 soldiers)
Hipparch - a cavalry commander- (Hipparchia ? a formation probably consisting of 512 cavalrymen - I?ve also seen this term used for the second in command of an army)
For the less common 500 man infantry and 1000 man cavalry units there are:-
Pentakosiarch ? commander of a unit of 500 infantry (Pentakosiarchia) Ephipparch ? commander of a unit of 1000 horse ? (Hipparchia = a formation of c1000 horsemen)
For the army command we have:-
Polemarch ? Is a bit of a poser. A Polemarch was one of the magistrates of ancient Athens. Originally, the Polemarch was a commander of the army, but after 487/6 BC, when the Athenian magistrates were appointed by lot, the military duties were handled by the Strategoi. This office also had religious and legal functions. I would favour using this term for the overall army commander, rather than the regimental commander (which I believe from the discussions it might have been used for); Chiliarch is the most appropriate term for regimental infantry officers.
Strategos - The term Strategos (plural strategoi) is used in Greek to mean "general". In the Byzantine Empire the term was also used in the to describe a military governor. Interestingly there were often multiple Strategoi with an army e.g. ?According to Herodotus, five Strategoi voted for the move and five voted against it, with Callimachus, the Polemarch, casting the deciding vote in favour of attack.? (Clipped from a source about the battle of Marathon). This would make the term very appropriate for the staff officers and sub-generals we talked about at the weekend.
So in my worldview the Polemarch would command the army, assisted by a council of Strategoi; some of these would be career military men, and some civilian political appointees. Some would have been selected by the Emperor and court; others might be from the Polemarch?s ?ring?. The Strategoi would be assigned responsibilities (as Stu was suggesting) e.g. Master of the Camp, Commander of the Left Wing. One Strategos would be designated second in Command.
Regimental Officers would also be likely to attend the War Council; they would mostly be Chiliarchs of the Infantry, or Hipparchs of the Cavalry. A Pentakosiarch or two from smaller light infantry commands might also be present.
I?d be interested to see what people think; apologies in advance if there are gaps in my scholarship; it?s all Greek to me!
Simon
Simon.miller_at_...
Sources see http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/GranicusNotes2.html;
various web dictionaries;
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Battle_of_Marathon re Strategoi
______From me_at_privacy.net Mon 02 Aug 18:05:20 2004 From: "Joerg Baumgartner" <joe_at_...>
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Jane Williams
> --- Joerg Baumgartner <joe_at_...> wrote:
>
>> the only point for
>> Tarkalor being his role as King of Dragon Pass who
>> just might get one instance of aid.
> Although Tarkalor was doing things at Whitewall long
> before he became KoDP, wasn't he?
Tarkalor was fighting a lot in the region long before he became KoDP, but I doubt he already built roads back then. That's a princely prerogative in Sartar.
> I like the Esrolian masons, myself.
So do I.
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