> Then there's the puppeteer troupe. As described in BA it is
> not compatible with the counter in WBRM. Now that might be
> Gregging but I'm of the opinion that BA just skims the surface
> of the puppeteers. I'd probably go with some serious Lunar
> illusion magic often appearing like Trickster magic but with
> at least some control.
I would prefer Lunar magics to work with mental suggestions rather than with holo-deck realities. Induced madness, which makes you see things that aren't anywhere but in your imagination. You could disbelieve these... maybe facing illumination. Rather than creating an illusionary fire, I'd have them create a minor fire - possibly imaginary - with a lot of "Fear of being burned badly" emanation. These might be disproven.
>>Still, if what you want is a bridge capable of >>supporting people, or an attack capable of doing >>actual damage, what we're discussing isn't an illusion >>in any normal English sense of the word.
> Yet the principle that illusions can do damage goes back
> to RQII. Greg has repeated his opinion that they aren't
> dispelled simply by disbelief. At the same time they do
> not physically exist.
I think Star-Trek holo-deck entitites for Puppeteer Troop illusions - programmed to bleed and die if hit, then leaving no corpses or equipment to loot when their program is terminated.
A lack of mythic reality would be there, too - an illusionary storm might pommel you with debris, but with control over storm you should be able to counteract that effect. By sending a real storm, you ought to be able to cancel it (augmenting "permanent reality").
Sorcerous phantoms can be merely optical. They don't get dispelled when shot at or attacked - rather the conventional holographic projection, like e.g. at the beginning of Serenity. They can receive a tactile component, which means you cannot run through them (although this effect can be had more cheaply by planting posts in the ground and then conceal them by optical illusions). They can even be animated and deal tactile shock. This takes extra effort and concentration. Usually made easier by combining optical and tactile effects, although in theory you could have a purely tactile phantom - which makes that a variant of telekinesis.
Acoustical phantoms or illusions are different from sound projections because they don't require a cause for the sound. Making complex sounds increases difficulty of a phantom. Acoustic projection of sounds generated elsewhere will be a lot easier, as will be amplification or modification thereof.
Heat phantoms are hard. Projections of heat ought to be easier, too (as long as distances remain reasonable).
>>Whether the >>Lunars could do it is another matter. On a small >>scale, they probably could. On a large scale - take a >>look at the final assault on WW, where they seem to do >>exactly that. Magical ramps, supported purely by >>magic.
> I'm not sure that's the case, it could be large scale earth
> moving magic. KoS isn't very clear on the matter.
I'd make that solidified moonglow - a crimson pathway rising up from earthen basements to the walls, encountering numerous strain points where entire cohorts fall dead from the effort.
> Looking through ILH2 I can't find any illusion magic at all
> which seems strange. nearest I can find is Merasedenya's
> dream magic which can on holy days bring dreams into the
> real world. The write up says many other cultures have such
> people as well.
Tricksters can (IMO), and pluck them from the realm of dreams/possibilities.
IMO the EWF (failed) mystics did just that, duplicating the dragons dreaming up emanations which make real monsters, or dragonets dreaming up the architecture of dragonewt cities.
Elemental magicians may give temporary substance, appearance or form to their element, doing something very similar to illusions/phantoms. Hence my "walking on moonglow" above. Not different from riding a sylph or one's own breath.
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