Re: Re: Fazzur Wallenstein

From: donald_at_...
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:48:15 GMT


In message <gqcqev+5rks_at_...> "jorganos" writes:
>Donald and me:

>> Which is why Tarsh has proper cavalry at all. The three counters
>> represent the lancers and cataphracts raised. They aren't as good
>> as the Heartland ones though because they haven't the long traditions.
>> Traditional Tarsh shock troops are the Huscarls.
>
>I don't quite agree. Yarandros, great-grandson of Arim, aka the
>Charge-Crazy, rode into battle. I can only assume that he didn't
>charge alone. Him having companions like Derik Pol Joni, founder
>of a nomadic tribe of Orlanthi riders, gives further indication
>that there was a cavalry tradition in Tarsh. At least parts of Tarsh.

KoS (pg. 118) says 'In battle Yarandros mounted his household men on the Goldhorses, and kept them close to him, ready to exploit any weakness, earning him the name "Charge-crazy."'

So that's a couple of hundred years of tradition limited to the king's household. And it relies on being able to get Goldhorses from the Grazers. TiF implies that the unit has been rearmed as cataphracts in imitation of Heartland practices which will have weakened rather than strengthened the tradition.

That unit will be the Furthest Veteran's Horse in WBRM. The other Cavalry will be imitations. Only the best Cavalry Corps units are better than the FVH and they have thousands of years of tradition behind them.

>> That is why I argue that the cavalry in the Sartar City Militia are
>> in fact mounted infantry. Sartar is no place for cavalry horses but
>> mountain ponies will be common and ideal for moving a warband quickly
>> along trails a normal horse would struggle with.
>
>Mounted weaponthanes, not full-time lancers, but medium-armed sword
>troops, enough to charge the flanks or rear of infantry, and of
>course to take enemy cavalry head on, but also ready to dismount and
>form up a shield wall. A counterpart to the Lunar dragoons, really.

They're going to meet Lunar cavalry on full size horses while riding mountain ponies?

Maybe the first time when they are ridden down by the weight of the enemy horses. Then they're going to dismount, form a shieldwall and let the cavalry bounce off them.

They may well sometimes charge into the flank or rear of enemy units while mounted but that's more Orlanthi impulsiveness than what they are best at.

>> The population of Tarsh isn't going to support a much bigger army than
>> the one in WBRM. Furthest is a city of about 20 thousand and has 2,000
>> infantry and 1,500 cavalry. Everywhere else has less than 5,000 people.
>> Probably a total population of 40-50 thousand supporting 7,500 soldiers.
>> TiF gives a list of units totaling 19,000* but more than half of those
>> are part timers.
>
>Tarsh has roundabout 300,000 inhabitants, almost twice the size of
>Sartar. Fielding a lowly 7000 infantry and 1500 cavalry makes that
>less than 4 % of the population. Extremely low for a barbarian kingdom.

>IMO the Dragon Pass muster usually is post-Dragonkill. Tarsh will have
>lost some troops there.

The scenarios in WBRM are all post-Dragonrise but cover a decade or more. I'd suggest if the figures are low they reflect the fact that part time soldiers are rarely all deployed at once. It does however mean that losses can be quickly replaced.

>> Even allowing for outside financing that's a very high proportion.
>> Few countries have ever supported more than 10% of the population
>> in arms for more than the duration of an emergency.
>
>> * I've excluded the Sun Domers as their 1,000 strong unit directly
>> relates to the city of Ever New Glory with a population of 6,000.
>
>Tarsh is in a state of conquest, and sufficiently barbarian to field
>8% of its population for campaigns. They also use captured slaves on
>their maize plantations (including the function as fertilizer).

The slaves must be part of the population figure of 360,000 (ILH1). It also means that the city numbers in TiF don't include the areas round about which I thought they did. Some troops will need to remain at home in case of slave revolts so won't be available for fighting in Sartar.

>>>I am certain that Moirades maintains close connections in Glamour,
>>>if only to counteract the Sylilan ambitions to control the Provinces.
>>>I guess it must smart that he did not inherit the post of Provincial
>>>Overseer from his father, despite his success at becoming King of
>>>Dragon Pass, and there will be a full regiment of Lobbyists working
>>>to keep the Sylilans out of occupied Far Point and Sartar, and, if
>>>possible, out of Kethaela as well.
>
>> That's if he is head of the Association. I don't think he is, that
>> will be someone in one of the Heartland leagues. If the Association's
>> priorities have shifted there may not be as much lobbying as he wants.
>
>Even if he is not the head of the Association, he is the leader of at
>least one important branch of the enterprise, possibly more than one.
>At least as influential as TurEel in Champions of the Red Moon.

He is the titular head of the League known as the Royal Family although perhaps Estel Donge is the real power. I expect other Leagues in the Association which are based in Tarsh defer to his leadership.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/

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