> Jeorg:
> All of the below just screams animism to me:
> >>>Maybe priesthood should be a female occupation among the Vadrudi?
> >> Insofar as the Vadrudi have priestesses, they are likely to
> >> appear as mad crones and hellish witches.
> > Slaves to the gods. I don't really see those brutalo machos
> > approaching an ancestral giant as a slave. On the other hand,
> > norns and curse-wielding witches feel right.
> I see them handing out fetishes, not feats; summoning spirits,
> not heroforming gods.
While I am somewhat flexible about the Three Otherworlds system, I think that gaining enemy magic as (standalone) feats feels right. You don't see Valind grabbing a fetish - he grabs a big club or sword, and out of his own nastiness clubs his opponent.
You don't summon spirits or godlings, you ambush them. You go where they can be found - that's why I talked about heroforming and heroplane, there's simply a richer magical ecology to be kicked and conquered.
>> Still, kin are those you fight only when there is no one else >> worth taking the trouble.
> And since there is no law against killing or enslaving kin,
> capturing ancestors in fetishes would be fair game.
As long as the fetish is e.g. the ancestor's skull, sure.
I still would like to retain some of that RQ Vikings look and feel. Hardly any established priesthood, but common (bloody) sacrifice. Likely on the battlefield, too. Taking grisly trophies. Individuals filled with divine power/wrath, riven from their somewhat normal struggle for survival.
>>> If the "clan" decides to follow another god then the priests >>> start cursing left, right and centre. >> Somehow this doesn't strike me as typical for their deities. >> Punching some heads in, yes. Snowing them in, pummeling them >> with whirlwinds, hailstones and similar would be in character. >> Slaying some thralls to show that they can, and that they care.
> Bad weather seems very animist to me. Yes, I know there are
> daimones of everything, but Valind sending the spirits of
> blizzard just seems cooler. And more savage.
I would posit that the (original, early Storm Age) Vadrudi didn't care who they rob of their powers, and what entities they forced into their service. They conquered the seas, who had escaped anyone else by not being what they expected. The Vadrudi didn't care, and captured them in any guise, then forced them into female, submissive shape.
> This seems like the kind of personal relationships that animists
> have with spirits, rather than the kind of relationship that
> theists have with gods. Do the dance, don't burn the goat.
They don't care whether a tomte, alf or draugr is from the spirit world or the divine world. Everybody is treated as an individual. Some with respect (including ancestors, especially the powerful ones), some pragmatically ("so we take uncle Bjorn's skull along and use his 'Scare Drylanders Shout' feat"), others with disdain (e.g. enemy clan's ancestors).
Speaking of clans: rather some extended bloodline, cohabitating and cooperating on raids in summer, and bloody nuisances in the enforced proximity of winter.
Main difference between Vadrudi and Icelanding Vikings: no Things with chieftains citing precedences. Tribute rather than wergeld.
That's why I mentioned Erik the Red's Greenland colony - formed from the outlaws of barbarian Iceland, and some gullible opportunity seekers.
>>> That's why the Vadrudi prefer magic beaten out of somebody >>> else. >> How do they get there? Heroforming their deities?
> No, by beating other spirits in spirit combat.
I'd prefer "by beating other spirits (gods, essences) by entering their terrain and then wielding a badass big sword/club/whatever, and to heck with disadvantegeous terrain" over that minds and souls game with spirits.
> "Community support" is an interesting problem when a leader
> considers most of his "community" to be some sort of slaves.
Hmm. Let's consider a typical "vadrudi" heroquest.
Step 1: gather a group of usseful followers who share your greed/hatred/desire, and show them you are the baddest of the bad.
Step 2: lead them into a situation where they have to tack along, or perish if they stray. Make some foolhardy threat, then punish one of your followers for things taking a bad turn.
Step 3: Risk has been upped. Now beat down the resistance. If beaten, have another go, minting your previous defeat into rage. (You'll still suffer from the defeat after the return, but for now, your opponent's early victory won't serve him.)
Step 4: Beat the main resistance by doing something gross. E.g. rip apart the great serpent by separating its jaws.
Step 5: Be the first at the reward. Allow your followers some lesser reward. (E.g. all the ugly niiad bed-partners.) Mercilessly twist the power off your opponent. Then scorn what's left of him. Gloat, don't kill. Do all the arch-villain stuff, but get away with it. (for the time being)
Step 6: Return, brag about your exploits, and smash everybody's face who attempts to belittle your deeds.
> Maybe that's what limits the scope of abuse. Or maybe "community
> support" means that the leader goes around and takes something
> from everyone.
Take something hostage... which is a bit hard in a society with few values.
Maybe start any such quest with a blood gift into a cauldron or something, binding the participating other warriors to the task. This binding helps distribute both the benefits and the punishments of the quest.
> It would seem to imply that Yggite society throws up leaders
> who don't need much community support; it may also imply that
> Yggite leaders tend only to take on heroquests that are
> sufficiently below their abilities that their followers are
> pretty sure that they will be coming back to kick their butts
> if they fail to provide sufficient community support.
You make Yggite society sound pretty much like everybody acts like Harrek the Berserk. Too much, in my opinion. Harrek and his methods (including enslaving the great ancestral spirit of his people) did appeal to the Wolf Pirates who followed him, but I don't see this as common practice.
That's a bit like having Vadrus field the chained/shattered bits of Umath in his struggles against everyone else.
> Peter:
>> Nope. The strongest Yggs remain in the Isles. Those leaving >> are their weaker kin. As for preferring warmer places to live >> that's like telling the Praxian that the Wastelands are no place >> to live or the Agitorani that there are cooler places to love.
> Damn straight.
Those remaining get run over by pansy Loskalmi, those going away get to beat up nasty Vadeli, brutish Seshnegi and Quinpolics, and yeah, raid and rape Esrolia. Consider again.
(Of course, Chris, you played out the part of those getting run over by the Loskalmi. You and yours need to believe that your are tougher than those others who roam the seas in strength.)
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