> >>[Eating children is a] Common effect of the Ban, really.
>
> > No, it's not. I don't recall Loskalm or Jonatela having this
> > problem.
>
>Neither had lost its access to the main source of food. Compare Galastar
>for an overpopulated, isolated place.
It's Southbank that had problems and even then they didn't eat their children. So your crack about eating kids being a common effect of the Ban is just plain wrong. It's specifically attested only for the Yggites.
> >>I don't think that they remained at this diet when there was
> >>an alternative.
>
> > So they just got over [eating kids] when the Opening came?
>When more food became available. Yes indeed.
Once again, customs are not just given up like that because people do not impose customs like that. Moreover as you tell it, the Yggites are acting too rationally.
>Although you may still have some bands of Reavers continuing that
>practice, if you really like this. Outlaws from Yggite society.
Once again the Yggites should not be Orlanthi. The Yggites, like other Vadrudi, do not have outlaws because the Yggites have no l aws.
> > I seriously doubt that happening. Societies don't give up customs like
> > that.
>You are confusing desperate measures with custom.
The Vadrudi are not the type of people that take desperate measures because they are not the type of people to plan that far ahead. Looking at the practice, it cannot be a major source of food because there's simply not enough calories. Nor would it be something that the Vadrudi do to themselves.
Thinking as a Vadrudi would, the only kids they are likely to eat would be those outside the immediate group - predatory (as opposed to funerary) cannibalism. This would work because it would act as a check on populations. Not all Vadrudi groups would have to adopt this just a sizable portion of them.
Come the Opening and the Yggites can fish in the Open and later hunt in the Winterwood again. Do you seriously think that the Vadrudi are just going to stop hunting kids out of the goodness of their hearts? If it's something that causes suffering to others, they would keep on doing it.
> > Except there happens to be a great deal of difference between
> > something allegedly done during the Great Darkness and
> > something that our parents did some fourty odd years before.
>
>Sacrificing humans, then ritually eating the remains is something that can
>be found in Heortling culture, too (Maran Gor cult, possibly similar Year
>King rites in darker parts of Esrolia, Fimbulwinter survival...). Without
>making all Heortlings cannibals.
Except that the Vadrudi are not as considerate for human life as to hide cannibalism behind religious scruples. They do not bother hiding their bad sides.
> > Who said anything about humble? If you are going to go through
> > my ideas critiquing them line by line, could you actually deal with
> > what I wrote?
>Humble to their deity.
Did I say the Vadrudi priests were humble to their deity? No.
>I'd rather see possessed avatars of the deities, at times struggling to
>remain in control over their bodies, at other times puppets acting out
>their gods' desires. In other words: berserks.
Except that the Vadrudi range of priests as I see it encompasses far more than just berserks. And rather get into silly arguments of the relationships between the human and divine nature of the Vadudi priest (one nature? a human nature subsumed into a divine? whatever), I'll just say:
>I don't see any attraction in another culture elevating the concept of
>slavery to a cultural achievement and cultic practice
Vadrudi Priesthood is not a cultural achievement and cultic practice. It's something directly imposed by the gods themselves as a sign of their power. It's a cosmic truth that the Vadrudi are forced to accept because of the choices they have made.
The Vadrudi keep slaves because it is a conscious imitation of the relationship between gods and men. At the same time, I have said they don't like to keep too many slaves.
>Vadeli and Fonritians are sufficient.
I dunno where you get the idea that slavery is intrinsic to the Vadeli. And the Vadrudi don't have anywhere as many slaves as the Fonritans or even the Lunars for that matter.
>Casual taking of slaves for menial work, like
>Praxians, is well established. That doesn't make the Praxians a
>slavocracy, so why should the Yggites be one?
I dunno. What makes you think I believe the Yggites to be a slavocracy?
> > How do you think the Vadrudi gods will deal with their worshippers
> > in such a way that it fits Vadrudi society?
>Weak followers in his gang. Scorned, mistreated or encouraged at a whim,
>but _his_ gang, and his assets.
AFAIK that's bad Orlanthi you are describing. Vadrus should be somewhat worse.
>But then would any other Vadrudi deity necessarily
>respect that Valind is king? Maybe on the ice. Elsewhere?
In areas closest to the glacier, he would be the Winter King. I think this includes the Yggs Isles. Further south (like say perhaps Galastar), the gangs might easily scorn Valind in favour of another Vadrudi god.
>I dislike
>the notion that Yggites (and by extension Wolf Pirates) can do so in
>mundane combat, whether to spirits, feats, or spells. Unless it involves
>carving up the beaten opponent on the battlefield, e.g. for the blood
>eagle.
I really don't see the atrocity as essential. The Vadrudi epitomize violence, not torture.
> > If they were making compromises, they wouldn't be a marginally
> > sustainable community. The Vadrudi are just as marginal as
> > the Broos, the Trollkin and the Scorpion Folk but you don't see
> > them making compromises.
>You lost me here. Why not compare them to the Praxians?
Because the Praxians are not a marginally sustainable community and their low numbers are dictated by the harshness of their enviroment, not their own choices.
> >>> What's wrong with Destor? If you portray him as a bandit rather
> >>> than an adventurer, he appeals to the Vadrudi nicely.
>
> >>Who did he slay?
>
> > Numerous foes not worth knowing the names of.
>So, not worth emulating.
I really don't understand your objection here. Destor's violent - that's all that matters to the Vadrudi. Glory, boasting of known foes etc - all these are things that only the Orlanthi would care about.
>Rather take Finovan, some potential for mayhem
>there.
The Vadrudi aren't interested in cows. If you were to have a similar subcult among the Yggites as kid-hunting, then that would be something the Vadrudi would appreciate.
> Or Varanorlanth (Orlanth as Vadrudi).
Varanorlanth is not Orlanth as a Vadrudi. All his feats are self-sufficiency and running away. He doesn't have any magics that a Vadrudi would be interest in.
--Peter Metcalfe
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