Re: The Fall of Whitewall

From: Jane Williams <janewilliams20_at_ZyvO-dgu2RIdD_31-sr3PchkRY4jvDtnzHyyRzjsDd8oiJvxTNCNI3s8ib56E>
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 22:45:05 +0000 (GMT)

It also doesn't help in the slightest with the real question of how you fit this new idea into an existing campaign that was using the existing (quite detailed) history of the area. Never mind chroniclers, how come my PC, and your PC, didn't notice? And that may well be insoluble. Which it shouldn't be - the solution should have existed before OiD ever got published, and it should have been in there.

Still, your ideas about why it didn't get documented are well worth pursuing. They probably won't help with the real problem, but it's fun nonetheless.

> Basically, either the writings, sagas, legends
> and folktales mentioning it have just not survived
> to
> be collated into KoS, or something prevented people
> from writing of it or preserving any such records,
> or
> such references were not chosen for preservation.

Or we go through each individual chronicle that we might have expected to include it, and come up with an individual reason as to why it got missed. The Saga can be ignored for this: it's not a primary reference. If the sources it had to hand didn't mention it, nor will it.

> 1. It could be that this particular Death of
> Orlanth was treated as a taboo subject,

OK, that's certainly an idea. It won't be something Orlanthi like to talk about, even though they eventually won.

> Problem with that being that the whole
> Lunar Empire knew that Whitewall fell,

and celebrated it.
"1621 was declared to be the Extra Full Moon Year. The Red Emperor declared a full year of celebration, to begin on the next Orlanthi holy day. All full citizens of the empire were granted a year without taxes, and opportunity to join into the official party which was held, nonstop, at all temples of the Seven Mothers and of the Red Goddess. In the Lunar Heartland, far from the fighting in the provinces or the starvation along the frontiers, the nobles and citizens held marvelous revels which lit the sky, earth, and waters with glory."

Yes, I think they noticed the fall of Whitewall. But how many knew that the Fimbulwinter would follow? Not many, I suspect. It's the kind of detail that would have been glossed over. Not publically acceptable, like the Bat. Heroic victories over enemy warriors are fine, deliberately starving peasants to death is less so.

> and many
> undoubtedly knew that the Fimbulwinter happened
> afterwards.

Well, those who experienced it would know. It seems possible to me that it got down-graded in reports back to the central Empire. The impression you're meant to give is kindly leading these barbarians towards the light of civilisation, not attempted genocide.

> Prax would undoubtedly have seen one hell
> of a lot of refugees. I grant you that the nomads
> aren't known for writing stuff, but the Sun County
> scribes would have been all over this defeat of
> their
> ancient enemy. They may be insular there, but some
> gloating would be inevitable. I would also expect
> Garhound accounts to mention the Death of Orlanth
> and Fimbulwinter. Legends last, too.

And in Pavis, too. They'd have noticed. Tricky.

How about Tarsh? Close enough to have been hit by the sideeffects, and supplying troops to the area.

> 2. Everyone forgot? Seems very unlikely, unless
> some major HQ was involved to take their memories
> away. Plus, if the writings are contemporary, there
> should still be references there. (Actually, the HQ
> idea is tempting, but I don't know what to do with
> it. Who'd do it, and how?)

Minarian Memory removal. How that works, who came up with it, and why they'd use it on this, are currently beyond me, but there's a start.

> 3. Did Doranda the Quill edit her sources so as to
> omit any mention of Fimbulwinter in the Argrathsaga?

The Saga, quite possibly, but CHDP?

> Scribes frequently have agendas of their
> own. Signs of active manipulation and massaging of
> texts are found remarkably frequently in surviving
> ancient literature.

Not mentioning Denseros in particular... (yes, I know, you meant RW history, and I agree with you).

> 5. Last possibility that I can think of is that
> Harshax forbade the mention of Fimbulwinter.

And may have used MMR to enforce it?

> We know nothing whatsoever of the
> post-Illiteracy times except what the Author of KoS
> accidentally includes. No-one's playing that era,
> and it seems unlikely that anyone will.

hmm... was that a dare? No, I don't have time.                 



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