> Jane asks, in response to me:
> > > Maybe he got confused with another Argrath, who
> --
> > > just, say -- lost the Second Battle of Moonbroth
> in
> > > 1625?
> >
> > He may well have done, but what does that have to
> do
> > with the Fimbulwinter of 1621/1622?
>
> Nothing. You were speculating about reasons why
> Fimbulwinter may not have appeared significantly in
> the KoS texts. One line of thought was that
> Argrath was doing something embarrassing at the
> time. Losing the biggest battle of "his" life up to
> that point might count.
Yes, it would, but that *wasn't* "at the time", was it? It was four years later. 1621 is not 1625.
> > Chris, . . .what's your take on AWB?
>
> I think he's a Sartarite by birth. I think he
> becomes the Jaldon counter in the Dragon Pass board
> game. I think he assists (or is) the real Argrath
> when he returns to the Wastes via Gonn Orta's pass.
> I think he remains the connection that includes
> Yazurkial as the eastern Dragon in at the end of the
> history in KoS.
All makes sense to me.
> I think he first makes contact with
> Kallyr in about 1623. The Bull has blown west for
> two years at that point, and he will have wanted to
> search out who was responsible for removing the
> effect that blocked the Bull's progress.
Ooh, good point!
> That's
> probably when he makes first contact with the
> Bastard Tribe, too.
Although if we agree he was Sartarite by birth, we can easily put him in a tribe that already ahd such contact. ISTR making him Dundealos for reasons that at least partially escape me.
> > I've always reckoned that to be an Argrath, some
> sort of descent
> > from the Sartar Royal House is required. We had
> AWB getting it by
> > being (or being descended from) a Sartarite taken
> as a
> > slave by a Praxian tribe. Does that work in your
> > opinion?
>
> That is my opinion too, though I would leave it
> ambiguous -- nobody keeps up with the ancestry of
> young slaves.
Agreed. *We* can invent where it came from, if we want to, it probably comes as a complete surprise to him. Put it several generations back. In fact I'm not too sure when or how he'd find out: at the Flame-lighting, perhaps?
> Also, he might be adopted by a
> Praxian chief in his youth, which would make his
> other ancestry irrelevant. (In fact, in magical
> terms, I don't see how he can avoid some form of
> adoption. Otherwise, he would have a non-Praxian
> spirit knot.)
Sounds reasonable to me.
> > Also, ISTR we had the idea that he ends up doing
> what
> > I think we'd now describe as "hero-forming"
> Jaldon.
> > This being how Jaldon does his regular
> re-appearances,
> > he gets hero-formed.
>
> He also may have taken the name Jaldon. Think about
> how many Muslims are called some verion of Muhammad.
True. As well.
> > Does that fit your understanding of Prax, or did
> us
> >Orlanthi-thinking types get it All Wrong?
>
> Stupid outlanders.
Of course! :)
> I think Bad Dream is the Dragontooth Runners
> counter. ISTR a KoS reference to his bunch calling
> themselves something similar.
May well be. I'm not all that familiar with the board-game counters, but the fit sounds good from what you say.
> An interesting question for me is how Bad Dream got
> in touch with White Bull. Why would Bad Dream have
> trusted him?
Via Garrath, who knew both of them?
> Did Kallyr give him token of trust in
> 1623? Why would she do that for an untested ally who
> is also a crazy barbarian?
Ah, here we can, if we like, go back to my original "story" (not that I ever wrote up more than half of it at best, and now it'll need re-writing anyway). But the basic concept I had was that this was *not* the first time they'd met. The previous time was in about (hang on, doing sums, dates have been changed under my feet....) about 1600, maybe a little bit earlier. He was born Sartarite, remember? Both early teens, met in Swenstown at some festival or other. (This is why I went for him being Dundealos - same city ring). Both lots of parents reacted along the lines of "he/she's totally unsuitable, no you are NOT seeing them again". Shortly afterwards, AWB-to-be is reported as killed in a Praxian raid. And when they meet again (I had it as when he's leading a Praxian army to invade Sartar, but your idea is better), both remember, and it takes her maybe a whole 30 seconds to have him firmly wrapped round her little finger again. (And possibly, to some extent, vice versa. She marries *someone* a few years later...)
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