Re: How many Argraths?

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_66ITkjDLM8jS4Jw0RW_fLfVhNMVOwO6Yt5f2ao0JQXCtCmnc3wzvvWNyezWkEP-UO4p>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 01:10:23 +1200


At 12:40 a.m. 27/03/2007, you wrote:

>As it does not give any further identification (i.e. he's just
>'Argrath' and not AWB or Argrath of Pavis or Maniskisson) it can be
>reasonably assumed that this Argrath who takes Corflu is the same
>Argrath that the CHoDP was given to in 1640 and so is 'The Argrath'.

No, it can be reasonably assumed that the complier wants us to think that this Argrath is the Argrath.

>While clearly a problematic source the CHoDP authors are very limited
>in what they can make up - careful omission is fine but I really can't
>see how they can lie and ascribe actions well known to have been
>carried out by Kallyr or others to 'The Argrath' when actual
>participants in those events are still all around.

Kallyr is dead circa 1630 and Argrath has been in power for ten years. Who's going to complain? Moreover the CHDP can't tell a lie is false considering they do just that with respect to the lighting of the Flame of Sartar.

>The Annotated Argrath's Saga compilers do not have this problem which
>is how they can have Argrath leading the Dragonrise quest while the
>CHoDP has to admit that he had nothing to do with it.

The CHDP makes no such admission. It avoids mentioning the leader of the Dragonrise and subtlely implies that Kallyr was not prsent.

>a) 'The Argrath' was in Esrolia in 1624 and presumably fought at the
>Battle of Pennel alongside Harrek and Broyan as the preceding
>sentences describe what Broyan and Harrak did after the battle

He's curiously not mentioned in that battle nor is the battle of Milrain/Zarn Kados also mentioned in the CHDP (which would be odd if an Argrath actually fought there). And FWIW Broyan is not mentioned at being at the battle of Pennel, the assumption that he was is based on the weak grounds that he is referred as going back to Heortland after the battle.

So IMO Broyan was at Milrain rather than Pennel and possible an Argrath there with him too. Why the CHDP complier did not mention Argrath is because perhaps Argrath did something discredible like doing a Gordon Bennett.

>b) However The Argrath in Esrolia in 1624 is not specifically stated
>to have any connection to the Wolf Pirates and to Harrek (but equally
>is not stated to have no connection with them).

That's because there is no Argrath described as being in Esrolia in 1624. An Argrath is implied as having been there through some wordplay after the event.

>c) The Argrath in Esrolia in 1624 'went back to Prax' so had come from
>there at some point previously.

An Argrath could have marched into Heortland from Prax and returned there after the battle of Milrain in Heortland. Simply by omitting any mention of the battle of Milrain, the impression is given that Argrath was in Esrolia in 1624.

>h) It is a reasonable supposition (but not 100% necessary) that 'The
>Argrath' who can call on Gonn Orta for aid at the battle of Dwernapple
>in 1639 was able to do so because as Garrath he had defended the
>Cradle in 1621.

Or perhaps because he knew enough about the Argrath who had defended the cradle so that he was able to pretend to be him to some slow giant?

--Peter Metcalfe            

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