Me:
> >But doing the job of a man does not make someone a
> >man. Vingans are women who do the job of a man. In
> the
> >HW version of Vinga, they even wear clothing that
> >makes it clear that they are women, not men, no
> matter
> >that that's a pretty impractical way of dressing.
Donald:
> I suspect this is argument is over the definition of
> male and female. In the modern world we use physical
> attributes as the definition and will surgically
> modify a baby which has ambiguous genitalia so that
> it fits one.
>
> To the Heortlings male and female are defined by the
> roles people take. So to them a Vingan is male,
Let's try checking the writeup, shall we? Vinga is refered to as "she", throughout. And "Loyal Daughter".
"Vinga is the goddess who does a god’s job of fighting enemies. She is the protector of the hearth when all men are gone and an expression of the courage of women. She is a goddess in her own right..."
"Vinga is the Heortlings' favorite female warrior goddess. Vingans do work that men normally do...
Goddess. Not God. Female.
And in terms of sex, which role does she take? "After death, Vingans feast, hunt, and relax from the burdens of combat as reward for their lives. They may go to Orlanth’s Hall or visit any of the Thunder Brothers when they want to enjoy men."
Well, that seems pretty clear. Female, and enjoys it.
"Vinga’s main weapon is the wisdom of women that
always
seeks another way,.."
Yep. Woman, doing the job of a man, and using her own strengths, not pretending to have those of a man.
"“We women can protect ourselves,”" she says to Elmal. We.
"In most cases, wherever the Orlanth cult says “men
only” it actually means “men and initiated Vingans
only.”"
Initiated Vingans not being the same as men.
> Alternatively they have four sexes - Male, Female,
> Vingan and Nandan.
Theoretically possible, I suppose, but Vingans are still refered to as "she". The definition used for gender is quite clearly *not* defined by the job they do, but by which role they take in sexual pairings. (I'll ignore the cases of homosexual pairings for now: that's a separate topic.)
> >> > And then start a fight over what gender their
> >> > god(-dess) is, I'd imagine. Vinga isn't from
> the
> >> >Water tribe, after all.
> >>
> >> Why in the world would they do that?
> >> Do men fight over which aspect of Orlanth is more
> >> correct?
> >
> >If one lot started saying that Orlanth was female,
> I
> >can see fights breaking out over it, yes.
>
> I suspect it would take a lot less than that. While
> theology is pretty low down the list of things to
> fight over, obscure aspects which don't fit with the
> local interpretation will probably cause insults
> leading to a fight.
Given that two lots of Dark Age Christians managed to start a war over which way round the tonsure should be shaved, I think arguments over something rather more fundamental seem likely.
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