>> For Orlanth, its being a farmer, a father, a
>> warrior. And just not as age dependent as you seem
>> to think. Men don't work that way.
>
>Being a warrior is - and that's what was being
>suggested as the standard male role. So that after
>about 40, they sit around drinking and doing nothing
>constructive whatsoever. Now, if we've got over the
>idea that the *normal* male is primarily a warrior,
>things start to make a lot more sense. As I was saying
>last night, so I'm not sure why you're still trying to
>argue the case.
The typical Orlanthi likes to think of himself as a warrior even when he hasn't been on a raid for years. That's why he attends fyrd training regularly. He's not primarily a warrior and knows it, for one thing his wife wouldn't let him. He's outclassed by experienced warriors but given a few brothers and sons to help he'll still see off the typical bunch of bandits and send his grandson off to turn out the warband to chase them down.
>> Farmer's always going to be needed to know when
>> to plant, how to sow, and deal with the unsual
>> problems around the farm.
>
>As long as you let him do that, not have him sitting
>around idle. And I'm still trying to find the magic
>that backs this up.
Probably because he doesn't use it. Blessing seeds and plants so they grow well is the priestess's job. The clan priestess will go round the steads at planting time and perform a ritual on the seed corn. All the man needs is the skill of planting it correctly.
There are probably some bits and pieces of magic that should be added to Durev's allfather feats such as "Recall history of the land".
>Sure, but since "elders" were never in question, this
>is hardly the point! There are the young. There are
>the "elders". And there is a huge gap in between!
There did seem to be some confusion over what age group was being discussed. "Elders" is itself a meaningless term without social context - there's at least one hunting culture in Africa where an elder is anyone over 30. Only a minority live to that age what with hunting accidents for men and childbirth problems for women. Of the men even fewer survive without significant injury.
Now Heortlings aren't going to be that extreme but a pre-industrial society with a fair amount of raiding and warfare isn't going to have many men over 50.
>A gap which seems to have next to no magic to support
>it, and a cult chosen along the lines of being so
>vague that it'll fit anything equally badly. Something
>is missing. Maybe it's half of Durev's magic (or
>OrlanthCarl?), maybe it's another sub-cult, but
>something.
I think it's Durev pretty much as is. There's an element of an Orlanthi success story in the choice of cults in TR. Durev as described is the successful carl who has passed the plow and ox team on to one of his sons. He's the man who organises the farming in the stead, decides what will be planted where, who's going to mend that fence, represents the stead's interests to the clan. He's the owner/manager who can do any job on the stead but delegates most of them.
So what's a less successful Orlanthi doing? He may still follow Orolmarn because he can carry on herding livestock while he's able to walk. But the majority will follow Durev even though the magic helps in their family relationships rather than their work. What work are these cottars doing? much the same as they've been doing since they were initiated. But now they're the experienced men who know what needs doing and how to do it even if they need a young lad or two along to help with the heavy work.
So what's the magic they need for this? Bless Tools and Work Hard definitely but otherwise they use common magic which is almost indistinguishable from skills and knowledge.
Part of this is that Orlanthi society doesn't rely on everyone having all the magic they need. The powerful magic is specialist - carls have ploughing magic, there are one or two grain priestess's in the clan who boost the productivity of everyone's fields. So for every follower of Durev who has the full range of feats and afinities there'll be a dozen who just have a couple of feats they use regularly. Just as not all those followers of Orane are brilliant cooks and weavers.
-- Donald Oddy http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/
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