> YGWV
>
> Quoting Michael Hitchens <michaelh_at_Rw7bDuIGgk3qDDctefgOzIex21cTuEAOryi_Nobb1pRS5jSsrfKKbf0xh1rPPRbKqIJOMx7vR-PPvHel.yahoo.invalid>:
>
>> On Sat, 7 Apr 2007, donald_at_5if8lNoKQ-4rPi1WM_s_17Be65tylTUXIig3RGN8qmN-HwLfujUfvvtJIvlu411X3W3_nsN-C7dU68DaRCFILWJVJg.yahoo.invalid wrote:
>> Fair enough - I'd been mising that refernce to Orlanthcarl etc in my
>> re-reading of Vinga. But then I ask does the "men in women's bodies"
>> quotes apply just to the Vingan warriors or to all Vingans?
>
> All.
OK. Hmmm. I need another clarification then (sorry). Does "men in
women's bodies" (and the reverse for Nandans) imply (or almost
automatically imply) sexual tastes? Or is it just talking about preferred
occupations? That is, is it (change appropriately for Nandan)
"I want to be a warrior and/or a farmer so I am a man in a woman's body
but whether I bed men or women is something separate"
or
"I am a man in a woman's body so I want to be a farmer and/or warrior and
bed women"
or
"man in a woman's body" is interpreted either way you like for your
Glorantha or as something else if you don't like either of these two
definitions.
Any of the above say that cross gender roles are possible amongst the Orlanthi, which we know (I thnk), but the second of the three would imply that there is a pretty hard and fast link between occupation and sexual proclivities. That may be how it is amongst the Heortlings, but I don't remember seeing it expressed that way anywhere, so I'd like to know.
>> Becuase I think that most Vingans would be farmers (like most Orlanthi
>> men) not full time warriors.
>
> Maybe, but probably not.
Ummm - can I ask for some more clarification here too? To me this is very important in understanding how many Vingans there are and their place in Orlanthi society. My logic is as follows, if any of it is wrong, please let me know:
Most clans would support no more than 30 full time warriors, probably in a lot of clans this is an over-estimate. By full time warriors I mean those who spend most of their time practicing, training, maintaining their weapons, patrolling etc. This would include the warband, ranking members of warrior cults, other specialist thanes, etc. Allow 15% of the 30 to be women, with most of the 15% Vingans. Gives maybe 4 (at most) Vingan Warriors in a clan. If most Vingans are warrior's, then you would have 6 Vingans at most in a "typical" clan. Most of the 15% of women who take men's roles then can't be Vingans, because 15% of 300 is 45. Leading back to the question of what cult do the majority of that 15% belong to? If you posit full time Vingan warriors as the minority of Vingans, then you can have Vinga as the common option for the 15% of non-Ernaldan women, but that contradicats your "probably not". So do I then take it that most Vingans are warriors, but most of the 15% of women who aren't Ernaldans are *not* Vingans?
Because the problem is, if you have most of the 15% of non-Enraldan women Vingans, and most Vingans are warriors, you get about 20 full-time Warrior Vingans in a typical clan (600 adults of which 300 are women. 15% of 300 is 45, say "most" means two thirds. Gives 30 Vingans, of which 2/3 are warriors, gives 20 warrior Vingans a clan).
So either we have
a) 20 full time warrior Vingans in a typical clan b) Most of the 15% of non-Ernaldan women are not Vingan c) Most Vingans are not full time warriors according to my definition offull time warrior
Can you tell me which it is or where my reasoning has blown up?
>> Because I see a real problem with the prohibition of Vingans and pregnancy
>> - it's saying that if you are a woman and want to be a *farmer* you can't
>> get pregnant. I can't see that sense in that.
>
> Correct.
Err, I must be being slow today - correct that even farmer Vingans have probitions against pregnancy or correct that there's no sense in a prohibition against farmer Vingan's getting pregnant? And if the later, does it or does it not exist?
Sorry for being pedantic and long winded, but all this has left me rather confused.
Thanks and apologies
Michael
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