Well I was abridging the argument which starts from the problems a warrior would have with pregnancy, assumes a lack of effective contraception and defines the solution as no sex with men.
>Yes, it's been said that philosophically, Vingans are 'men in women's
>bodies'. They're attracted to professions, activities and attitudes
>that Heortlings believe are masculine, so - to the Heortling mindset -
>of course they must really be men. That doesn't mean they can't still
>have sex with men... there's nothing to say that men in women's bodies
>can't be *gay* (or bisexual) men in women's bodies, after all. :)
>(Even assuming that Heortlings have such a binary view of sexuality in
>the first place, which isn't by any means a given.)
>
>I think a lot of the problem is that this posited Heortling attitude
>to gender roles clashes with modern 21st century Western ideas of
>gender identity, and some people don't want to have to deal with the
>difference in *their* Glorantha. Hence Jane's feminist Vinga - as
>goddess of women who can do anything men can, but are proud of still
>being women - is in conflict with Greg's transsexual Vinga as goddess
>of women who are really men. Since YGWV is a cardinal principle, I
>fail to see why people should be getting so upset about it... just use
>the version you prefer in your games.
Maybe I'm greedy but I want both and I don't see why that shouldn't be the default. Sartar is big enough for there to be significant variations from place to place. After all it's not far to Esrolia where Vinga is the goddess of army officers. I understand why Jane gets upset about this. She has put a lot of effort into writing entertaining stories and myths about Vingans which are consistant with what's been discussed and published about Vinga over many years. And yes, she's written more than has been published either in print or on the web. Getting told "Oh this is just your Glorantha varying" doesn't encourage her to complete and publish the rest.
>Besides, as I implied in my story about the weaver-men, I think that
>such matters don't really arise for 85% of Gloranthans. Few people get
>so deeply into the mysteries and magic of their god that philosophical
>questions about identity really arise. They never rise above initiate
>(in most cultures few even reach that level); they rarely concentrate
>their magic; most of the cult's restrictions and taboos are at the
>level of "we'd rather you behaved this way, if you want to appear
>pious" rather than "spirits of reprisal will strike you down if you
>don't behave this way".
>
>It's only the tiny minority who become devotees or disciples (or Rune
>level, if you're playing RQ) who identify so closely with their god
>that it affects even the categories of people they're sexually
>attracted to...
It's only that level who have the god's identity overlaying their own. However even initates are expected to act like their god and gain a better relationship from doing so. If they act against their god's nature that relationship is damaged. Not only that but the priviledges society allows those who follow minority gods are likely to be removed or restricted. Chalana Arroy is permitted to heal and protect clan enemies because that's what she does. If she is seen to break her vows then she may well be viewed as a traitor for doing so.
-- Donald Oddy http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/
Powered by hypermail