Re: Heortling social structure and wergeld confusion - a clarification

From: Toread DuDerysi <jakyer_at_3LQflWMv3CCiaX2ONCt-mn3ncqvcbqn3SMlPzpVemeJjCr_kk4LjFmPlOxXNWBdQiTrGs>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:49:26 -0000

wrote:
>
>
> I'm not trying to take the clans out of the equation. I'm trying to
> figure out a realistic vision of how individual wealth is created
and
> maintained, and a believable mechanism of why the thanes become and
> stay thanes, and how they support their expensive lifestyle.
>
> The warrior-noble logic seems to fit the society quite well.

The clan/bloodline system is realistic for the technology and social level. We are not in the pre-modern

> I assume that the chieftains hall belongs to the clan and the
office
> of the chieftain, and not to him as a person (nor to his
bloodline).
> I'd say the chief is usually the head of one of the bloodlines of
the
> clan. One of the landowning thanes, and that he moves to the
> chieftains village when he get's elected (or she, let's not
forget).

This is correct. The office has certain entailments which the chief is expected to do his job with. Chieftain's herds and lands are mentioned several times in Thunder Rebels and Barbarian Adventures.
>From these, the Chief is expected to support his warband and his
other expendetures.

Landownership, however, is not something the Orlanthi do on the whole. Bloodlines 'own' the land, not individuals. And even then, they can lose it if they can't hold it. On the whole, the Bloodline is the mechanism for survival among the Orlanthi and it's needs take priority over almost everything (vengeance and justice being some of the exeptions).

> I'd also say that a farmer pays taxes both to his/her local thane,
as
> well as to the clan's communal larders. It's this communal surplus
> that is the clan ring's business to manage for trade, favours or
> famine. Same with cattle and livestock, of which a portion belongs
to
> the clan, and among other things is used to fund the chief and the
> religious functions of the clan.

Way too feudal. This sort of arrangement might exist in areas where the Orlanthi are enserfed or have become very feudalized but on the whole I suspect that it would not be the norm. Hendrikiland, maybe. Certainly not in Sartar or Esrolia or the like. Possibly in the Ditali lands which have a strong Malkioni aristocracy or in Bastis where the Trader Princes there have become a defacto feudal overlod. But on the whole, this sort of arrangement really isn't the way the Orlatnthi work. At least, not while they remain a clan-based society.

I am not saying that this is an impossiblity but I do think that this is an overly materalistic and modernist look at how a society in antiquity functions.

Jeff