Re: Heortling social structure and wergeld confusion - a clarification

From: donald_at_9Qi8OXDbdhbDjNk4TQtd6etNqV762aGQPaFWh4kEOJzi1vs44rG0OwSvBrQXk99_vEHB5
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:01:54 GMT


In message <f0jd7h+5unm_at_eGroups.com> "valkoharja" writes:
>
>> You are assuming thanes have a significantly different lifestyle
>> from the typical carl or cottar. I don't think that's true, about
>> the only way you'd pick out a thane in normal working clothes is
>> details like a metal belt buckle rather than just a tied belt.
><snip>
>
>I do indeed. It has been said that devotees are exceptional people who
>must be supported by the clan since they don't have enough time and
>opportunity to lead a normal life (that of a carl).

That's true of specialised subcults. A devotee of Esra isn't going to do much weaving because she's going to be performing magic and otherwise helping farmers to grow barley. However a devotee of Orane is going to be running the weaving shed. Supported by the clan is a bit misleading because their magic provides greater value for the clan than "normal" tasks.

>I think thanes are
>such specialists, and even those that are initiates don't really have
>the time to be out there plowing the fields and milking cattle. No
>doubt they do some of that, but their primary responsibilities lie
>elsewhere.

But what is their specialism? All Orlanthi are fighters so they don't need protecting by a warrior nobility. The huscarls the chief appoints and supports are the few full time warriors but don't have any special status because of this. In my view even they help out at peak farming times like harvest. Nor do they need an elaborate management structure, in any activity they will choose one of the most experienced people and follow their lead.

>On the other hand, I think I understand what you mean. Now that I've
>thought about this a bit more, I think the communal model fits well
>within steads, families and bloodlines. The thanes, as the heads of
>bloodlines (and the heads of families in smaller steads) make the
>decisions regarding wealth. The thane is well off, and has nice
>things, but the level of personal extravagance is less than it would
>be in a true feodal society.

I think the thane's mother will make the decisions about wealth. She's probably the only person who actually knows what's been hidden away for future need. Asrelia/Ty Kora Tek doesn't share secrets without good reason.

>I hear you. I'm coming at this from a slightly different angle
>(thinking how many thanes, huscarls and warriors a clan supports, and
>how the wealth for this is generated and distributed), but I'm not
>forgetting that the power and position isn't permanent or hereditary.

Since a typical clan is about 1200 including children you are talking about supporting maybe 50-60 full time warriors. The clan could possibly support twice that number but that's unlikely. A more peaceful clan might get away with as few as 30. To pay for them the chief gets a share of everything produced - probably about 10% although with payments to the tribe and Lunar tribute it may need to be as high as 20%. The chief may well have other sources of income such as fees charged to foreign traders at the clan market.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/

           

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