>> This seems to be a well-founded nomad belief, also finding its >> expression in Waha digging the Good Canal, redirecting the >> Sounders River to wash away the squashed remains of Wakboth.
> I'm not sure I buy this. I don't recall which source it was in, but my
> memory of the description is that Waha dug the river so that the river
> would "digest" the remains of the Devil. Which implies it's a serpent,
> not a bath.
Either Nomad Gods rules (and mythology) or Cults of Prax (Waha Cult).
Dealing with waste water as part of my job, I can assure you that washing away always has a note of digesting/dissolving. IMO the Praxians expect the water to work on the Chaos mass like gorp "acid" would on other matter.
Other explanations are very Monomyth, but contemporary to the sources which mention the cleansing effect (or digestive effect) of the water on Chaos.
>> To the Beast Riders, all sources of water are sacred (note that >> all the "altars of Prax" are oases).
> Does the Stool not count?
A big heap of infectious shit? Not sacred to anyone but Malia. A later addition to the Nomad Gods board, too, IIRC.
> It has no water. Apart from that I think it's
> a generally valid observation, but I don't draw the same conclusion.
There was an article by either Sandy Petersen or Martin Crim in Codex 2 discussing the watery nature of the altars.
> Sources of water are rare, useful, and important. Spirits live in most of
> them, so they are certainly sacred in that sense. But I don't see that
> has much to do with the ability to wash away chaos.
A couple of moons earlier there was a discussion about the basic level of Praxian swimming (on the rules list, I suppose). Greg appeared quite adamant about their ability being zero rather than the standard "I don't know how to" 6. That's what made me think of submersion as a Death/Underworld - Rebirth experience way beyond what Christian baptism can convey (even when done with complete immersion, and some time for the air to be used up).
>> So, to Praxians there are two ways to get rid of Chaos - water or >> wildfire. If you can conceive a way to burn away the Chaos taint (and >> survive the experience), there might be another way.
> They certainly tried the latter, presumably with some success,
Actually that was the Tada-Shi, destroying their savannah habitat in the process.
> though not
> so much on themselves. It was not complete -- there were still chaos
> armies left after Oakfed at everything.
Oakfed ate everything in Prax. Chaos seeped in again from the outside.
But we appear to agree that fire is a way to remove a chaos taint (usually along with the body bearing it, but that's another issue).
>> Note that any ritual involving complete submergence is an >> Underworld/Death experience to Beast Riders.
> Why do you say that? I don't see any correlation. The Dedrawaha don't
> have much in the way of water myths.
See above. Water in quantities that can submerse you are alien to the Praxians, usually resulting in death.
>> Even the watery methods should cause great etched scars etc. to show the >> ordeal.
> Assuming you allow them in YG, I agree.
If they are serious, Baths of Nelat style methods, I'd allow them. Grudgingly.
>>> perhaps requiring you to travel back to the green age or golden >>> age, before chaos entered the world.
>> Why would those innocents know how to remove Chaos? It should be >> impossible to restore innocence (except through death/rebirth, and loss >> of identity).
> They would not. The idea was that, if you go back before chaos entered
> the world, you wouldn't have any in you when you were there, so you might
> not have any in you when you returned. It seems very likely to fail, but
> almost anything can happen in the green age. Of course, you might also
> come back with a completely different personality and no combat skills . .
> . . And you might have spread a tiny bit of chaos to everyone's ancestors
> . . . .
The Opili people of Pavis are reported (was that in the Tentacles Press Pavis scenarios?) to visit a Green Age (-like) realm where Death has not devastated Prax, and grew food for the humans of the Rubble during the Troll occupation. They didn't overcome Death thereby...
You keep coming up with nasty propositions what might happen if one underwent such a quest. Sort of daring narrators to do so... :)
>>> (And failure on the quest probably means that you arrive in the >>> Storm Age at the same time as chaos arrived -- and you're to blame!)
>> Nicely nasty. IMO _to succeed_ you have to go there, and shoulder the >> blame. Then start to get rid of it.
> Well, the only problem is that only one god ever managed to do it that
> way: Orlanth.
I don't believe that the other Lightbringers were more innocent. Each of them went there bearing some sort of guilt, and struggling to overcome it.
But in the end, all the other known deities in the Underworld participated in the Ritual of the Net. Possibly including Eiritha.
> I'd say that the Praxian equivalent would be reliving Storm
> Bull's fight with the devil. So, you fight it, you fail, you get help,
> you fight it, you beat it down, and you bury it. It's highly unpleasant,
> considering the Storm Bull was literally torn apart. But I don't think he
> shouldered the blame. He had other motivations.
Storm Bull doesn't accept any blame, right. At best he regrets not having slain Ragnaglar earlier. But Storm Bull has a special way of dealing with chaos losses - he snatches your soul just before oblivion, and joins you to the Eternal Battle. This does remove the Chaos Taint. Along with (most of) the body, identity, ...
It is Waha who digs the Canal to clean up after the devil was crushed.
But don't mind my ideas too much - I always was an outsider in Prax, never went native.
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