Re: The cities of Sartar: income, troops.

From: jorganos <joe_at_kkM5su6ox4Gp9r83ap9-pXb7NJyvJFKFD3lekBqUg7JOUZgt_XSsuTvfJG5UJBFDf4PjyTgv>
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:55:33 -0000


Donald:
> I think the tribal kings will tend to establish themselves in the
> cities rather than a separate village. Otherwise we get two
> competing centres in each tribe and the city has a big advantage.

It is hardly a tribal center if you have to travel for two days through other tribes' lands to reach the city (as is the case for e.g. the Kultain in Wilmskirk).

Another important point is that a king residing mostly in the city will alienate himself from his rural clansfolk (at least in their perception), especially his own clan. The city is not a tribal center - it is a tribal asset which requires some of the king's time, but not essential to tribal rites, tribal musters or tribal moots. Would you want to discuss internal troubles where all the other tribes can overhear your differences, and capitalize on those?

> Any city levies are going to be poor quality by comparison with
> the clan warbands because part of the strength of a Heortling
> force is that everyone is related to the people they are fighting
> with.

Tenuous blood relationship can be replaced by esprit de corps. This is Sartar's big magic, so I expect it to extend to the city levies.

Otherwise you are right, the city levy doesn't compare to a clan warband. Take a weak tribe's warband for comparison.

>>Then there are other mercenary forces present in Sartar.

> But which side are they on in 1602? I suspect the Lunars would
> hire a lot of mercenaries just to prevent the Prince of Sartar
> using them.

Until 1602, it was the princes of Sartar who provided income for the mercenaries accompanying the traders. While this won't create loyalty, it will have created a situation where mercenary bands ended up in Sartar.

Being in a mercenary band when your host country gets involved in a war is always bad on the mercenaries. "If you are not for us, you're against us" can easily create a situation where a mercenary band either takes the contract or retreats fighting. I suppose there are small epics of such incidences.

> That assumes the cities have windmills or watermills to grind
> grain. Without that the trade of miller doesn't exist.

There is a third type of grain mill: using beast power. Less costeffective  than either of the other types, but necessary where no water wheels can be used. The same can be said for oil mills and other mechanical contraptions which may appear too sophisticated for Sartar until you check Roman and Roman Age Egyptian engineering, and keep in mind that there are two sources of technology for such contraptions nearby: Mostali and God Forgot.

Windmills inside a city ought to be rather rare - the most exposed hilltops usually house a keep or a temple rather than a windmill.

The principality of Sartar is famous for using mechanical force translation - it was Saronil's application of these for building the Boldhome Storm Temple which alienated the dwarves, but this implies that the technology remained in use nonetheless. While it fell out of use during the devastations of the early Illiteracy Era, it even experienced a short-lived revival among the Cliffhome refugees during the bad parts of the Hero Wars (or subsequent dark times).

> In which case either
> the bakers have to grind their own corn which will require more than
> five or bakers don't exist and all bread is made at home.

Baking bread usually "requires" a cottage-sized building, similar to a potter's kiln. If a city house includes an enclosed plot for outbuildings, this is possible. It most city houses don't, it is less likely.

I'll accept that the standard Heortling use for grain is porridge (and ale) rather than bread, but cities also cater for the needs of travelers, and thus will produce durable and transportable food.            

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