CJ wrote:
> was just thinking as I do from time to time about Spol. …Are there
any good
> sources I have missed for Spol?
I think you got ‘em all.
> I note it is a Darkness religion,
Please remember that this religion was formed as a reaction against the religion of Light which had conquered their homeland. Many of he formerly predominant cults were diminished, and the many darkness entities came to the fore specifically as an act of rebellion, a “shadow religion,” as it were. Practitioners sought out other underworld cults too, and introduced them into their cities and their hidden temples.
> and has a strong emphasis on necropolis and commemoration of the
dead, and
> indeed the preservation of corpses - undead even?
Before going too far, I want to point out that the Spolite religion is widespread and complex, and as such has room for variant practices and cults within it.
> As I understand it the dead lose self
> identity, and memory, at some point after death (except heroes)
merging in
> to generic "ancestors" and then in many cultures being reborn.
That is correct. Heroes, being recipients of sacrifice or other worship, maintain individual identity. It is possible that their ability to return something of value (the magic) is an important part of the process.
> I wondered if however the Spolite Darkness cults …
> believed that the spirits of the dead watched
> over and could help the living.
This is a belief common to all ancestral worship.
> I was thinking perhaps the Spolites aim to continue personal identity
in the
> afterlife as long as possible.
> I wondered if however the Spolite Darkness cults saw the afterlife as
> paradisiacal, … To that extent they would want to retain
> personal identity in the afterlife; and just as heroes seem to be
preserved
> by the praise of the living, an elaborate Death based religion of
funereal
> monuments and rites for the dead might arise to help the dead stay
distinct,
> retain their individuality, and perhaps assist the living. In some
way the
> preservation of the body prepared with the correct rites and magics might
> assist.
Though unusual, this could be possible.
Let me point out that ALL religions that have large numbers of people
can have different variants and philosophies within them. This
particular belief you have outlined I will call the Remembered Dead cult.
Note that it would be VERY difficult to maintain according tot he normal
energy exchange of the material world and otherworlds, but let us
presume that some particular methodology, enhanced by the special
monuments and rites, could sustain this.
I will point one problem: remembering and identifying ALL the individuals.
But if only a few key ones are retained, then it is not so different
from normal ancestral worship, where individuals are remembered and
maintain their identity.
> Darkness being linked to the Underworld, and the dead leads to the
Spolite
> Darkness elemental association, but my idea is of a death obsessed
culture,
> in its own way conservative, who are attempting to "cheat" the normal
> patterns of life death and rebirth, and build a shadowy land where the
> living and dead play out a sacred dance of perpetuating their existences
> indefinitely, at least in theory.
A fine philosophy for a portion of the religion.
Peter Metcalfe wrote:
> I'm not sure where preservation of the dead and necropolis come from...
>
> Glautorus is said to have made all cemeteries into holy places, preparing
> to raise the dead if needed. However he is the seventh and last of the
> Spolite "Emperors" cited in the Unity List, which indicates that respect
> for the dead wasn't very big among his six predecessors.
It doesn’t necessarily imply that.
BUT, I recall that Glautorus was planning to raise the dead as an act of
war, being somewhat desperate and having gained the support of other
desperate peoples as well.
> Aegrastus
> the most oppressive of the Spolite rulers is primarily known for his
> cost of his demanded sacrifices.
Although the purpose of those sacrifices is unstated, and could be almost anything.
> AFAIK the Spolites saw the afterlife as a gloomy place full of terror
rather
> than a paradise. They were mainly concerned with appeasement of
> the dread Underworld rather than any personal considerations. Those
> that sacrificed a lot lost their fear of the Underworld which made them
> more powerful. It also allowed them to indulge in behavior that was
> normally abhorrent, which was the origin of the insanity cults that
> plagued Dara Happa at this time.
Another significant philosophy of the time!
Imagine these, and other, streams of understanding and effort within the
overarching, vengeful religion. Introduced cults from other regions
complicate matters:
“Hey, I’ve brought a couple of priests from Dara Happa whose people fear
them!”)
“Yea, well I learned some troll rites! Ever hear of Zuka Zan?”
“I have a new method of human sacrifice!”
“None of those will bring you to paradise, my friend…”
etc
CJ wrote:
>
> Ah! So the insanity cults were based on not fearing death!
Some, perhaps. Others were probably based on simple desperation, or a belief in divine madness, or in knowing that the divinely touched can’t be understood by mortals, or that people could become possessed by demons and seem insane, etc etc.
> I did wonder: I
> saw them like medieval satanism or witchcraft: a perverse rejection
of the
> ruling classes religion by embracing it's opposite.
This is the origin of the cults, as mentioned way above.
> I therefore thought the
> appeal of Spolite religion in Dara Happa was the fact it was
Spolitism was ever that popular among the Dara Happans, except among the
underclass that saw themselves cut out for the True Light of the upper
classes, etc.
Spolitism was a majority religion (for a time) in Pelanda, and as
centered in (surprise!) Spol.
> quintessentially un-Dara Happan, and imagined the Insanity Cults as
> secretive blasphemous inversions of normal DH practices.
Yes, that too.
In conclusion, I want to stress that we should avoid saying any religion is just this or just that—they are complex, and if they are not tiny, will have various strains and philosophies within them.
Which in my book are all MGF.
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