>The Doraddi (in the sense of "Pamaltelans living the life and death
>exemplified by Dorad, the first Agi-mor to die") have a myth about
>being created in a land of fire.
Since Agimori means Agi who live and die, speak about Agimori rather than Doraddi if you are going to generalize about the inhabitants of the Veldt.
>Their myth about the creation of
>plants is that of the medicine plants.
That's from a God Learner synopsis and taken out of context. It is an explanation of how some plants in Glorantha came to be - it is not an explanation of the source of every plant in Pamaltela.
>Their myths say they hunted before they say they were drinking.
What of it? The Agi didn't need to hunt at all in the first place and some of the animals they were hunting were herbivores.
> > The list of the Fiwan, who have been around ever since
> > Pamalt awoke, contains several creatures which are
> > herbivores, such as the Milk Antelope.
>True today. Not necessarily true at the time of their creation.
So how and why did the herbivores come to eat plants?
> > There is the Tree War in which Pamalt fights the
> > Jungle and then comes the Agi.
>
>Balumbasta raises the Fensi range, and locks out the jungle.
And is less than successful in doing so.
> >>The Men-and-a-Half of Prax still have a
> >>diet mainly consisting of meat, with plants only an afterthought.
>
> > Which is primarily an adaptation to the place where they
> > live rather than being an ancestral diet unchanged since mythic
> > times, one thinks.
>The place where they originated may well have been similar. Tarien
>still is. (lacking grass, of course...)
In mythical times, Tarien was the land of Mondator and part of the Artmali Empire of Kungatu. It was not the arid land that it is now and the Agimori do not originate from there.
> > Except that the Doraddi live in Kothar
>Doraddi describes the culture of mortal humans following Pamalt, not
>just a portion thereof.
In which case say Agimori.
> > and have a tradition of
> > settled life (stemming from the ancient land of Tishamto).
>They did not start out living in cities. Yes, by the time there were
>cities in Tishamto, they had a tradition of settled life. The immortal
>Agimori created by the Great Spirits were not urban, though.
What then was Um? It is a bit of a stretch to argue that city dwelling was an innovation when Um can clearly be considered to be the first city/
Secondly the Agimori are, by definition, not immortal. The Agi of the Old Days were immortal. When Pamalt introduced death, those that accepted his gift became the Agimori. Those that did not became the Agitorani of Sakum.
>Neither
>appear the First Drinkers to have lived a settled life before the
>death of Dorad.
That is only the nomadic version of the mythology. The sedentary Agimori may well have a different view.
> > Using the attitudes
> > of the Agimori of Jolar - the Arbennan - as a guide for cities is
> > like using the Hrestoli as a guide for the Rokari.
>Wrong, since the Rokari are not ancestors of the Hrestoli.
Neither are the Agimori of Kothar ancestral to those of Kothar. There's two mythical sources of creation - Kothar and Taluk Mormadak, and some mythical tension between them. When the God Learners came, the Kothari mythology was in the ascendent but the Taluk Mormadak mythology has recently reasserted itself.
>Simply look at the book Genesis, Cain and Able: the Hebrew God places
>Able's animal sacrifice over Cain's grain sacrifice, because they are
>descended from pastoralists rather than sedentary farmers.
And what's to stop the sedentary farmers having a different version of the myth in which the animal sacrifice gets placed behind the grain sacrifice?
>The deep origin of a culture will influence certain flavours of a culture.
Except that the details are mutable and can be retold to influence either side. Compare and contrast Orlanth's death at the hands of Humakt from the PoV of the Humakti and the Orlanthi.
> > I don't see where the river comes from and calling it a capital
> > presumes a government organization over the whole of Tishamto
> > that we have no evidence for. After all Tishamto may have grown
> > its food within its city borders.
>I suggested that that was the plan. Frankly, I don't know of a single
>city anytime anywhere which managed to feed itself from within its
>city borders.
This is Glorantha. Especially in mythical times, they have the capacity of feed themselves from within their own borders if the borders are larger than that of Pavis.
> >>Perhaps the Kresh reanimated part of the culture of that ancient city?
>
> > The Kresh are nomads.
>
>Pushing and drawing their wheeled cities along.
The cities are wagons. One might as well claim that the nomads live in tented cities. The true heirs of Tishamto are the sedentary Kothari - not the Kresh.
> >>The Pamaltelan veldt may be lush compared to Prax and the Wastes,
> >>but presumably the plants worth cultivation require more than
> >>nature is willing to offer them to thrive.
>
> > There are patches of wild grasses
>Exactly: Grasses. Something the Veldt has a distinct lack of.
It has analogous plants which can easily be used for nourishment. Can I
> > in Turkey that don't require cultivation yet can be
> > harnessed to provide grain. All that requires
> > for transplantation in glorantha is growing magic.
>No debate there - that's how Genertela works.
No, it is not how Genertela works. I spoke of the patches of wild grass _not_ requiring cultivation yet providing grain. In Genertela, the grasses are cultivated.
>And what the God
>Learners failed to introduce south of the Fensi chain.
Why should they need to? Other than to make it look like home?
>If the Veldt offers such plants in sufficient quantity to support
>large populations, then why are there oasis settlements?
Because that's where the plants grow in sufficient quantities to support large populations?
> > AFAIK these plants are for medicinal and religious purposes
> > rather than food crops.
>
>In Esrolia, grain has great religious importance, and grain beer has
>been known to be used for medicinal and magical purposes, too.
That grain has great religious importance does not make it a plant for medicinal and religious purpose. Think of incense, magic mushrooms and the like.
--Peter Metcalfe
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