Please substitute ecological process for ecological progress
Rob
>
> I have been pondering this; my personal workaround for this is that
> slash and burn and normal real world ecological progress is
replaced
> in Glorantha by the forces of magic, creation and deity. The more I
> think about it I can't see elves burning down part of a forest, its
> like setting fire to your relatives! Yikes! I mean, sometimes we
all
> feel like it but christmas only comes once a year eh?
>
> Regards
> Rob
>
> --- In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, Peter Metcalfe
> <metcalph_at_> wrote:
> >
> > David Dunham wrote:
> >
> > >I do think that the widespread and destructive God Learner
burning
> > >has skewed the population somewhat in the favor of elves
associated
> > >with trees that propagate better with fire.
> >
> > Looking at the sources, I see that only the woods of Vralos were
> > burned and that the woods of Enkloso continued to exist throughout
> > much of the age.
> >
> > >To me, these aren't really deviant elves. Unless the fact that
they
> > >are raising a crop of pet humans makes them deviant.
> >
> > Since I was the person that originally called them deviant, it
> > would be much more constructive to acknowledge that I
> > was criticizing their supposed tolerance for having their
> > forests regularly burned down rather than contrive a
> > fictitious excuse that they are deviant for having pet
> > humans.
> >
> > >IMO the Vralos
> > >elves are willing to let their pet humans practice a lifestyle
that
> > >doesn't encroach upon the aldryami woods, since they are useful
> tools
> > >against Fonrit.
> >
> > How is burning down woods a useful tool against Fonrit?
> > The Fonritans would be all to happy to have the humans
> > burn down trees on the grounds that it reduces cover
> > for troops that might oppose them. Looking at the history
> > of the Season Wars, I see it was the Fonritans that
> > was doing the burning while the Orlanthi were busy
> > using winter powers.
> >
> > >They need enough pet humans to be able to raise
> > >armies, so they need to tolerate agriculture.
> >
> > Except that the idea that the Elves would not tolerate
> > agriculture is a strange one since they themselves
> > practice agriculture of a sort. All that the Elves need
> > humans to do would be to cast food song before they
> > cut down a plant.
> >
> > >Slash & burn is
> > >probably more forest-friendly than plowing, so they can allow
this,
> > >within limits.
> >
> > And here we come to the nub of the debate. David assumes
> > that the choice is between slash-and-burn and plowing and
> > so on "probable" grounds which he never specifies, the elves
> > should tolerate slash-and-burning.
> >
> > That the Umathelan Orlanthi do not use the plow is a reasonable
> > one in light of the sources describing them as "primitive". It
> > does not mean that they have to use slash-and-burn or even
> > hunting-and-gathering. There is in fact a third alternative, which
> > I have mentioned to David before, namely horticulture as
> > practiced by the Highlanders of Papua New Guinea which
> > sustained a population of about three quarters of a million in
> > a mountain range before they were contacted in the 1930s.
> >
> > Given that Umathela sustains less than twice that number
> > of Orlanthi over a vastly larger area and given that the main
> > crop of Umathela is peas, the idea that the Orlanthi would
> > be horticulturists is to me to be a no-brainer.
> >
> > >And Pamalt drove the forests out of the south, which is clearly
> > >different as well -- destructive burning as opposed to renewing
> > >burning.
> >
> > There's no difference IMO and the Fonritans right next
> > door exterminated the Kovano Elves through burning when
> > they conquered the land.
> >
> > --Peter Metcalfe
> >
>