I do this with some trepidation of once again awakening the homophobia so common to our Western society.
donald_at_t2UMmTjpquniDAhg323wTtCRJfB0hbJKtwuf33fiJMEXAqyHOcKSkzbA7vRsDStt7ywk-JnP-FSVYJ7Q8KNJ8Eg.yahoo.invalid wrote:
In message <f84gvb+qqtj_at_eGroups.com
<mailto:f84gvb%2Bqqtj%40eGroups.com>> "julianlord" writes:
> >Anyway, I'll pick up on your remark here --- and sorry, but this is a
> >misunderstanding -- there are TWO genders, male and female (duh?) :
> >NO neuter, Nandan, Vingan, nor Helering...
>
> I presume you are referring to physical genders here. As I recall
> the context of the discussion it was about *social* genders. While
> modern western society has an obsession about making social gender
> match physical gender that's not true of many cultures in the RW
> so I don't see why it should apply in Glorantha.
Donald is correct. Gender is not about sexual roles or about physical parts.
> Even physical gender isn't as absolute as you imply. There are a
> small minority of babies born with gentials which aren't clearly
> male or female. They are usually operated upon to make them one
> or the other so that they can be classified.
Such an individual in Glorantha would be considered to be incredibly holy in most cultures.
> >Jane mentioned that Vinga is not from the water Tribe, correct --
> >Vingans have no gender mutability whatsoever, and not even Helerings
> >would have physically sexual mutability either, normally.
> >
> >"Male" Vingans would be tomboys as children, just as young Nandani
> >would be sissies (or whichever less derogatory term).
>
> I'm not at all sure that this is true. KoS states that all the
> childless widows of the Kheldon joined the cult of Vinga at one
> stage. It is unlikely that they were all tomboys.
Correct. Vinga is much more than just being tomboys.
> >Only through Heler can male and female roles normally be taken on
> >variously throughout life, or even mixed and matched, letting a
Among the Heortlings Heler fulfills (among other things, like being the southwestern, and spring time, rain) the role of gender bending. In one sense, Heler is the god/dess of sexual ambiguity.
> >Helering say help look after the kids of the clan and do some loom
> >weaving etc, and still be war leader of the local fyrd, a good
> >husband and father, etc...
> I suspect that this is very rare. Simply because there isn't time
> to become competent at all the required skills. A limited subset
> of male and female skills certainly.
Correct.
> >Vingans and Nandani MUST choose between one or the other, although it
> >has to be said that most Nandani wouldn't normally get any choice at
> >all... but there is a place in Heortling society for women warriors,
> >so that a Vingan _can_ be a woman, and proud of it ;-)
>
> I'm of the view that many more women learn weapon handling than just
> Vingans. Not that it makes them warriors any more than the average
> male Orlanthi is. But they add to they fyrd and can pick up a spear
> to defend their stead if it's attacked.
Absolutely. I believe that I have stated this. They can call upon Vinga or or Orlanth, as a member of the common religion, for magical help, too. They are less likely to get it than an initiate, of course.
One thing that people seem to be forgetting is that everyone worships all the gods and goddesses, and can access them at need. Even being an initiate does not limit a person. Everyone knows they have both Ernalda and Orlanth “inside themselves,” but that they will tend to lean one way or the other. So when those hardy warriors are out on campaign and they have to cook, they will know they are using a bit of Ernalda, or Nandan, energy to do that. And when the housewife throws a rock at the rat in her cupboard there is a little bit off Orlanth, or Hedkoranth, there.
> .
>
>
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