Greg:
> Above the law? Which law? Are you subject to the laws of
> Kurdistan? No? Are you above the law then? Was Orlanth
> "above" the law, or outside of it?
Orlanth appears to have respected the Gloranthan Court deities (sort of Gloranthan UN security council), who appear to have sanctioned the (Evil) Emperor's rule over the world, but by performing the three challenges Orlanth found a way to legitimately avoid being bound by those laws.
IMO Orlanthi myth does not deny an original legitimation for the Emperor ruling Glorantha. It does, however, question the legitimation when the Emperor's rules go bad.
> Likewise Umath and his people came from *outside* of Yelm's original
> realm, and hence had some immunity from belonging to it.
Both Umath and Yelm referred to the Gloranthan Court as the great authority. Umath as a member, Yelm as appointee. This gives at least some body of rules they both subscribed to.
> Sure, the Romans would have like for the Goths to conform to
> their laws, but were the Goths required to do so by their own laws?
Theoderich's Ostrogoths, when finally in charge in Italy, did require the Goths to follow Roman laws. Maybe not all of them, but a large body of them.
The comparison with the Orlanthi is apt - Ernalda brought lots of Fire Tribe culture into the Storm Tribe (along with her own Earth Tribe culture). The Orlanthi don't start from zero, but build on what went before, adding their own intrinsic values.
> The period when Orlanth was out, away from home so that Ernalda had
> different husbands (well, one of the times she did), is not an
> exile. He had released Death and the great wars were beginning.
> He had business elsewhere.
That doesn't seem to be clear to the Vingkotling-descended Heortlings. They have myths of Orlanth Niskis (in the guise of Dashing Veradash) sneaking back to become one of the husband protectors. (Thunder Rebels: Niskis myths and Vingkotling Age history.)
> A little bit of mythological lesson here.
> Let us start with the quote:
> One time all of his brothers conspired, and helped by a thief and
> a trickster they caused Orlanth to be outlawed. This is the time
> of Ernalda's other guardians. [...]
> While Orlanth was gone, kinstrife rocked the Storm Tribe.
> Finally Vadrus killed Barntar, who stayed
> dead. This was the first true death in the kinstrife.
> After Orlanth's time of exile was over, Vingkot sacrificed
> and called him back.
> TR, page 146.
> Myths often conflate events or compress them. This one sure does.
> Half of the Storm Age is compressed between the theft of the
> sword and the "return" of Orlanth.
Does this make the alternative reading - that Orlanth was accused judged guilty, and going to exile - untrue? Or does this give a mythic structure that characters like Vargast Redhand or Owenreth the Exile could build on?
Also, Orlanth being gone from Karulinoran is a major event. Under normal circumstances, taking an adventure in the field does not prevent him from being present in his abode. The Vinkotling Age account makes it appear that divine aid from Orlanth was not obtainable, so that Vingkot had to make do with his own (impressive) resources.
Plenty of other myths (e.g. the snake army and mineral army myths hinted at in Anaxial's Roster) make use of Orlanth's absence without invoking the "Greater Darkness/Orlanth is on the Lightbringers' Quest" environment.
> So start by noting that this is from an essay about the
> Vingkotling Age, not about the life of Orlanth. So it has
> that slant. When it says that Vingkot "called him back" it
> is not a literal fact that Vingkot was responsible for this.
Sort of a pity, really. Here we have the great opportunity for Vingkot as ruler of the Storm People to have to judge the originator of the laws by those very laws, and find him guilty.
(Sort of like Frederick II of Prussia taking pride in losing a law-suit against the miller near his palace Sanssouci...)
> It's a notation that the sacrifice was going on and was
> a link between Orlanth and his son, just like is done in the
> time of the storyteller.
This leads me to a totally different tangent: I understand that the modern method of sacrifice for theist magic (as practiced by the Heortlings) was developed by Hantrafal in the Silver Age. In the mythical age, sacrifice appears to be as common, but the magic appears to work differently. How exactly?
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