> Concerning killings the length and breadth of
>Sartar and possibly Heortland (not sure about her
>activities outside of Whitewall), I'm taking the list
>that Jeff gave on the Immod list as only a partial
>list of the deaths that she would have caused if she
>campaigned in the way that Jeff posits. A Kallyr
>who's killing anyone remotely associated with Lunars
>will have a very long list of deaths to her name.
I don't believe this approach is practical. I doubt if there is a single clan in Sartar which doesn't have some members who have converted to the Lunar way. After all by 1619 they have had 17 years of missionary activity to make converts. Those people are still part of the clan even though they've chosen to worship strange foreign gods. If Kallyr had managed to upset pretty much every clan by killing converts there's no way she could have been acceptable as Prince of Sartar. Remember the Heortling priorities - family before clan, clan before tribe then tribe before Sartar (if they get round to thinking about it).
The broad sweep of the Hero Wars sees Lunar armies conquering the whole of Sartar and Heortling armies conquering Tarsh on several occasions. That tells me a lot of individuals and groups are swapping sides as the wind changes which isn't going to happen if there are widespread massacres of anyone associated wiith the opposition.
>This is the degree of hatred against the Lunars that I
>believe he ascribes to her and her most likeminded
>followers. If not hatred, exactly, then at the very
>least a wish to make everyone believe that if you
>co-operate with the Lunars to any degree whatsoever,
>then you are a potential target. If that is not the
>case, then I am wrong about Jeff's vision of Kallyr.
I think Kallyr's hatred is more specific than "everything associated with the Lunars". She has hatreds based on her imprisonment by the Lunars and the destruction of her clan but she has enough understanding of Lunar politics to realise that those she blames for that are only part of whole Lunar empire.
That's not to say she wouldn't use the "You're with us or against us" line in attempting to convince clans to support her. Nor does it prevent her taking what actions she sees necessary to drive the Lunars out. The Dragonrise is hardly going to spare anyone associated with the Lunar effort.
> Kallyr will have been in the thick of these
>people, and should be behaving like Vinga during the
>Greater Darkness. Vinga protected her people, and
>fought the Chaos. So, Kallyr fights the Lunars. All
>good. My point is that there is still a model of
>honour and endurance to follow that is relevant to the
>Fimbulwinter. Even during the Greater Darkness, which
>is when Vinga truly comes into her greatest power and
>influence, she is still a protectress. Women and
>children (e.g. clanless or starving widows and orphans
>sheltered and fed by Teelo Norri) would not be
>justifiable targets for many Vingans, or other
>Orlanthi, for that matter.
I'd say this is one of Kallyr's internal conflicts - Vinga the protector clashing with Vinga the avenger. That doesn't mean there aren't fanatics who would storm a TN poorhouse and put everyone to the sword but they aren't the political leadership of the rebellion. I can imagine Kallyr and other leaders using such people and claiming that they were exceeding their brief.
> Although the Lunars are vilified as the
>modern-day Chaos, they are still ordinary people, with
>as much good and bad as anyone else. They've been in
>Sartar long enough that a lot of Sartari actually know
>this, especially those in prominent, influential
>positions. They may not be kin, and you wouldn't want
>your children to marry them, but neither are they broo
>or slime-dripping monsters.
I'll bet some are kin. In addition to converts there'll be marriages. Tarshite soldier marries local girl. The cultures aren't very different and there's probably a tax benefit for the clan if the Seven Mothers priestess blesses the ceremony. Indeed for clans close to the border I expect there are cross-border kin even before 1602.
-- Donald Oddy http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/
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