Re: Rightarm Islanders (long)

From: donald_at_NQSmAD7AXhBQmfRGhh--6FT2J20ui0G0QFBE8IhLhMVXosstssFcCW1T_Ct_QZQOOzxGj
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:24:35 GMT

In message <fcll3i+hkjk_at_eGroups.com> "jorganos" writes:
>Stephen Tempest:
>>>I can't help but wonder: Do triremes have better ramming speed and
>>>maneuverability than say Augustan biremes or Byzantine Dromons? Is
>>>this the same argument as longbow vs. crossbow (i.e. with a genuine
>>>advantage for demanding that much training), or is this because of
>>>tradition or magic?
>
>> Historically: yes. A trireme was essentially the fastest and most
>> manoeuvrable an oared warship can get without modern construction
>> techniques or magic.
>
>In an environment of little wave action.
>
>Where does the maneuverability advantage stem from, compared to other
>oared vessels? Simpler designs like the Hektaconter or the Viking
>Longship had less draft and roughly the same length.

I don't think the trireme was inherently more manoverable just equally so. The extra rowers improved speed and well trained oarsmen could turn the ship by backing up on one side while rowing forward on the other. I rather doubt the Vikings trained to that level. Where they had the advantage of manoverability was over bigger ships.

>Donald Oddy:
>> Square rigging is the original form of sail. Used by galleys and
>> merchant ships everywhere since prehistory. Lanteen and fore-and-
>> aft rigging are subsequent developments to improve performance
>> when the wind isn't right behind the ship.
>
>Actually, a single square sail could sail quite well into the wind if
>turned almost along the keel. The main problem was to keep the ship
>from drifting sideways, which is where sideswords come into play.
>(This was also tried in the recently failed reed-boat
>West-East-crossing of the Atlantic.)
>
>> The elaborate multi-sail rigs of the renaissance and later may
>> be expected by some gamers but don't appear in MotS and would be
>> a serious anachronism if they did. And it's only those that require
>> sailors to climb masts, a single sail can be handled from the deck.
>
>Climbing the mast mainly comes to play when sails are shortened.
>Orienting the sails is done from below as well, using all kind of
>winches and blocks. How was the sail put up and down on single-sail
>masts? I don't think that a square sail was let down flapping wildly.

The yard is raised and lowered with the sail attached rather than having a fixed yard. There might be the need for one man to climb and fix the yard in place or it could be held there by the ropes. Remember that a lot of this type of ship had dismountable masts so the removal of the yard would be necessary anyway.

Not a practical approach with multiple sails on a single mast.

>> However if someone wishes their Glorantha to have such ships then
>> it's up to them.
>
>The Kralori junks might just cross that border - historically, junks
>combine galleon-like rigging with ribbed sails.

I checked MotS for that and there didn't seem to be anything to suggest that many sails.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/