Re: Re2: Re: Saint Orderlies

From: Greg Stafford <glorantha1_at_LvN5gbdbl_3q-anYejWduVS8W_UN2I6yIUrH_SRZv6uVAe_MsJ3B466tnva0wz_sZ>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:08:12 -0700

YGWV Sorry to be getting in on this so late. I figure it's best for me to jump in here.

I also invite TI to make a list of current questions and I'll attempt to answer them.

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Terra Incognita <> wrote:

> Me:
> > I realise my ignorance to HeroQuest
> > definition of "Veneration".
> >
> Tim:
> >Veneration is a form of worship that does not involve the sacrifice
> >of material goods (like the worship of the theists) nor the ecstatic
> >rituals (like the worship of the animists).

Although remember that sacrifice also includes a certain sate of mind (often what would be called a "trance state") and animism often includes giving of goods, sometimes called "offerings" to differentiate them from "sacrifices," which go to gods.
Note that the specific use of these words in the game is an attempt to define specific things, and in our language offerings and sacrifice overlap considerably. they could be even used as synonyms.

> I think of it like
> >Christian worship - normally through a congregation lead by a
> >liturgist (or orderly or wizard) - or through an individuals
> >prayers - I realise this may not be as helpful to people bought up
> >in other cultures/religions!

Sure, I think thy will, based on my own little experience in Japan. But I think veneration is not so different from some Shinto ceremonies. it doesn't require the butchering of bulls or the burning of goods, no the throwing of weapons or slaves into a well or crevice. There is no dancing, etc.
The worshipers are quiet, allowing the priest /leader to do the rites. They pray, perhaps burn some incense, turn their minds towards the entity being worshiped and follow instructions for the services. Veneration being of Western origin, there is a lot about "right thoughts" and "thinking the right thing" to have the link. But the priest is he director, and the individuals go through him to be part of the spiritual link.

For a matter of note, V.S (another Japanese Gloranthaphile) taught me that
> the meaning of "Veneration" in HQ mechanic and Christianity is similar
> but not same thing. For in Catholicism, "Worship" and "Veneration" are a
> sort of opposite semantics,
> Former can be used as "Worship God" while latter can be used as "Venerate
> Saints".
> But they never "worship Saints". (We can't understand the difference of the
> two.)

Don't worry, neither can most Catholics. I can't. but then, I am not a monotheist either.

But in HQ game mechanics, "Venerate" term generally used for the ability for
> liturgists
> transfering energy to Higher Entities in Wizardry Society, while "Worship"
> is general,
> common term among (poly-)Theism, Animism and Wizardry.
> "Hrm, then what?" I asked to him.:-)

yes, what then?

Greg Stafford
Game Designer

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