Re: Early, or Late Event?

From: Terra Incognita <inarsus-ferilt_at_Vc9ajXb_eSeAiH575drzxARy7lUpxEnFjwculWt5iW94JGbGsvOWwO0Bssw6V>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:08:16 +0900

To Greg and other gloranthaphiles:

I am sorry for my delay of reply. I have just tried to survive in this Everything World....
I don't want to disagree with Greg, but I have some thinking about specific aspects of Entekosiad. I am not sure these can be common.

>What you need to understand is that all these myths are attempted
>rationalizations of something that is beyond understanding-not beyond
>experience, but beyond any attempt to explain it in logical terms. Metaphor
>is the only way it comes out-the language of poetry and mythology.

Yes, I suppose some Gloranthans and realworld people don't agree with you, I suppose Logicians try to explain everything logically, and try to deny the working of subconsciousness. But I can understand and believe your opinion.

>1. Something happened--something apparently traumatic.
>2. Other bad things occurred, in fact, everything got bad. Everything died,
>even Death died. Absolute obliteration.
>3. Something happened, and we were saved from #2. We still do that

I think that is the origin of rituals from the point of view of every culture, and participants of ritual are members of it. But Lunars might be exceptions, for they are illuminated.

>Orlanthi: trauma = Umath's death; bad = Great Darkness, the Extermination
>Universe; rescue = Lifebringers.

>Heortling: trauma = Grandfather Mortal and Death; bad = Great Winter;
>= Heort.

(Some Japanese made a bold hypothesis that Vingkotling and Heortling are from different origins. Sorry, for this digression.)

>It is best to think of these various stories as parallel realities or time
>lines that all began somewhere back in the unknowable, in prehuman
>consciousness, where our unique mental facilities do not function the same.

>There is no "correct way" to sort them out.

Yes, but I think some people tried to sort them out 'wrongly', especially Godlearners did it such most.

I suppose there is a correct, or at least accepted 'Lunar Chronology' even among Lunar TaJers (See Entekosiad p.76, 'Mythic Time'), I am not sure how such kind of Godlearnish activity is tolerated or controlled by Lunars, but if so, I can propose KanaPoor cult might be good administrators.

>*Entekosiad* is a collection of stories from different sources. These are,
>general, more raw than the refined, rationalized stories presented in GRoY.
>Judged by their settings and customs, they seem to be more primitive. And
>they are numerous.

>Which ones of these are theist, animist and essential? I'm not always sure,
>but I can qualify some of them to start:
>Theist: Turos and Oria cycle; Idovanus and Jernotia cycle; Bisos cycle
>Shamanic: Deneronae cycle, ArroTurru cycle, Orogeria & Kenstrata cycle,
>Tawar cycle

(I am not sure this 'Tawar', I can't find this name in my copy of Entekosiad. See Glorantha Index, for this digression.)

>Essential: Spolites, and the ancestral peoples (generally demonized by the
>others) from around what is now the Sweet Sea

(IIRC, Greg didn't teach us whether Demonization is unique act of Wizardry Society, or not. I am not sure who demonized Spolites.)

I assume what most Entekosiad confused me is that situation of the author. For most of Gloranthan people don't experience rituals more than one or two sets of cultures. From Greg's statement, I suppose Cycles of Myths are not from single culture, but various related, but not same cultures of West Peloria.

Valare is a "Natural", if I understand correctly, it means that she is naturally illuminated and could participate in various, different rituals without penalty. I think HeroQuest is a personal experience as well as social activity in Glorantha. Most Gloranthans perceived it as inseparable.

>One more point: are all these stories of equal moral value? That is, do
>teach or illustrate the same morals and obligations of the participant
>towards her society, towards others, towards foreigners or the other
>No, they are not.

I think illuminates are special because they can perceive completely morality as personal. (I am not sure such condition is Occluded, or not.)


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