Re: R: Re: Lunar element's relation to others, especially Storm

From: John Machin <orichalka_at_djbHS_h0I1CSgZRytxljvJ95Q8EzQeyGdClhBTtFoEGZma5pj-EzQkin6VvY0dTHUz>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:17:25 +1100

I always imagine the God Time causality as taking a leaf from *Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius*; essentially it applies while people are paying attention and then starts to become confused as new things happen. The relationship is imperceptible, unreliable, and - basically - unreal.

Orlanth's slaying of Yelm, being hard to ignore and universallly (cosmically?) observed, remained a sharply causal relationship.

(Sorry this is not really about the Moon and the Storm, but I find the whole idea of the God Time fascinating and it was one of the things that drew me into Glorantha initially).

2008/12/10 pentallion

> > Time is connected to causality and I don't think there is one
> single entity, even if the Lunar Pantheon is a powerful one indeed,
> that can be linked mutually to causality.
> > Ciclicity and Balance are aspects of causality, but I don't think
> they are so central in Gloranthan Time definition.
> > I don't think that Lunar elementals can be defined as Time
> elementals, either.
> > Time is not eternally the same and eternally cicling as the Lunars
> believe. Their sudden appearance in 1247 or so is a prove of that.
> > Time is also connected to entropy, for example, so you could call
> a Chaotic entity a 'Time elemental', applying the same inductive
> reasoning.
> > But it would be wrong, in my opinion.
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Gian
> >
> Actually, time is not connected to causality in Glorantha. Orlanth
> used the death rune on Yelm. This caused Yelm to die and go to the
> underworld. All the while Time did not yet exist. So during the
> God Time causality existed outside of time. In Gloranthan terms,
> time is something different from causality, which would maybe
> explain why the old myths can be changed with impunity on the God
> Plane. Time in Glorantha is definately, at this stage of Gloranthas
> development, a cyclicly natured thing.
> In fact, that is the entire mythos of the Gloranthan universe in a
> nutshell. What I referred to as the iterations of Ouroborous. The
> dragon swallows its tail, is reborn, does so again. Grower and
> Maker add another rune, the world changes, new Gods rule, then they
> add another rune, the world changes again, and so on.
> It's a cyclical universe.
> Perhaps after another revolution or two of Glorantha's cycle, time
> will become linked to causality.
> Something else, I've been trying to pin down who are the three new
> gods of this age. Each prior time Grower and Maker have added a new
> rune, the texts I've read stated emphatically that there were three
> major gods who ruled that era.
> Arachne Solara would be one.
> Anyways, back to the Lunes. The Red Moon creates Lunes, the Blue
> Moon creates Celenes, also referred to as an elemental.
> They've always been elementals since the inception of the game. And
> the Lune Elemental has a madness attack because Time in Glorantha is
> more about the abstract concept of the void and all things being
> forgotten in time, than it is about what 20th century humans think
> of time as being. As in all thing Gloranthan, it's symbolic. An
> abstract thought like time is going to affect the mind. It will
> cause madness because it makes you forget who you are.
> IMO it could lead to problems down the road of someones campaign if
> a Lune were anything other than an elemental.

John Machin
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
- Athanasius Kircher, 'The Great Art of Knowledge'.

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