> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 3:51 AM, nils_w <nils_at_Gj7veYKH1r6LcvO10FSYh9nNHsZ4eL6LqSI6Nvd8xl3V9s-VXOHDifxfShYGIBhuv-qaEJXKKbk.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
>
> > There are. In the East Isles there is Frenzypeace in which you
> > attempt to get ever longer glimpses of the Absolute through
> > unhealthy doses of unhealthy practices, and the Kambolic
> > traditions, where the disciplines are called the Six Indulgences.
>
These are both offshoots of the Gloranthan "tantric" tradition, which has every bit as much claim to being a "mystical tradition" as any. Somewhere in the Eastern Mythology there is a story of two rivals, one of whom is aesthetic and the other of whom is indulgent. That story carries the weight of my opinions of the mystical reality of tantra in terms of Gloranthan "reality."
The two are rivals for the proper way to do mysticism: one says "get out of the world" and the other says "get out of the Otherworld.
If you REALLY want to break your teeth then delve into the One, the None and the Nonduality versions of what the true objective of mysticism is. And if you really want to waste time and electrons, you can have a discussion a bout which of these is which Gloranthan system.
Please use a good Subject line, so I can avoid it.
I think this is an exception that proves the rule. Note that I did say this
> sort of thing is not mainstream in *most* places. That wording was
> deliberate.
>
I discuss only the Eastern Mystical Paths here, and wonder if I have laid this down before.
The mythology of the East recognizes an "origin" that is unknowable, a state
beyond transcendance or immanence.
The high gods and antigods, devolving from that ineffable into the knowable,
become/create the world.
Ancient Masters (human, usually; sometimes demigod; sometimes immortal)
proved to their contemporaries that they were still ineffable. Their
personal stories provide the "paths"--the ways to be ineffable too.
(Ineffable means "so huge you can't F-- with it.")
Human beings today have difficulty performing the austerities (or indulgences) as they did of old. Standing on one foot in a difficult position while iron bands constrict sensitive parts in one thing, but to do it for the "two hundred years" required by the path is difficult for people. So, people work out, devise, discover or are given ways to alter the Ancient Path to be attainable. In fact, most of these individuals who came up with these practices are considered the equals of the Ancient Masters, or even superiors. And since many of them lived in today's past, they ARE Ancient Masters.
The process of devolution from the Ineffable into Glorantha changed the world, and so many of these practices changed as well. Some have long lineages of masters that trace themselves back to the Ancients. They use "mystical methods" passed down to them from the Ancient Master, and they have been adapted to the modern Glorantha reality. I will label them the Modern Practices.
Modern Practices don't exist in the state of perfection known in the old way, simply because the Old Way is gone and changed. Some paths use the tools of the world to work their way to whatever mystical objective they have. These tools are, of course, the magical systems. (Yes, the Easterners know, use and manipulate the four Otherworlds. They "know" how they were created, as Peter has pointed out.) They claim to be mystical, and might have significant methods to be mystical, whatever that means.
OK, OK, I will share the insight that only Charles Corrigan (I believe it was) has had: many eastern paths treat THIS WORLD (Glorantha, the center, the Everything World) to be the Otherworld of their Ineffable.
Here is my point: the Mystical Unity, the Ineffable, the One or Nondual or
whatever is the objective of Gloranthan mystical practices, is unknown,
unprovable except through personal experience, and itself confers nothing of
value to the knowable world of Glorantha.
People want it anyway.
Systems exist to help people along to that state.
Some work, some do not.
Their shape, their existence, is that of the world, of the Everything World
which everyoen knows includes magic, sometiems as a temptation (avoid it!)
and sometimes as a helping force.
I'd love to see this discussion shaped differently.
Make it concrete, with the objective to shape a couple/few of the
discernable "schools of thought" or paths and so on, that will reveal to us
how much magic there is and so on.
It doesn't need any new system, or even any new definitions
This is Glorantha, this is HeroQuest--what it needs is stories.
I am inviting you to be active participants here. Lay down some of the story
lines that are hidden there, but start with the obvious ones.
--
Greg Stafford
Game Designer
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