Somewhere in this thread there is a complaint that there is not enough room for mountains in Sartar or some such. I have a USGS quadrangle approximately 4 x 7 miles from Colorado in the US, that has about 30 named peaks on it above 12,000 feet, many of these above 13,000 feet, one small river, approximately 40 to 60 meters wide, runs though part of the map and another of equal size finds its headwaters there. Surely, Sartar is large enough for its mountainous regions. The quad is entitled "Storm King". The elevation changes within the area are about 4,500 feet from river to quite nearby peaks. Now there isn't a lot of arable land on this quad but the lowest elevation is probably around 8,500 feet, and Colorado, though it might appear so, is not a magical land. The mountains in Sartar proper are not as large as the Rockwoods etc., correct? Those are closer to the vast Himalayan style peeks of which you refer. And of course KF is beyond all comprehension. But I get the impression that the mountains around KF are smaller than those in Sartar. For my part, I like the intimacy of the smaller distances in Genertela than one would at first assume.
>
> --- In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, Greg Stafford <Greg@>
> wrote:
> >
> > YGWV
> >
> > This keeps coming up. I am surprised at the errors that have
> apparently
> > been made and reproduced over the years. I will set some
> information
> > down and see if this can be clarified.
> >
> >
> >
> > I will be interested if anyone can trace where these errors come
> from,
> > and show the erroneous lineage over the years.
> >
> >
> >
> > For the sizes that I have always worked from: start with the board
> game,
> > and also the map on page 7 of the Genertela book.
> >
> >
> >
> > danhalberd wrote:
> >
> > > For my game, and website (www.halberdgames.com
> > <http://www.halberdgames.com>) I've been trying to
> > > write up more material on the Lunar Army. Once again I'm coming
> up
> > > against the problem of just how small the Lunar Empire is i.e not
> > > much bigger than France with a population of a bit more than 7
> > > million!
> >
> > The breadth of the Lunar Empire is supposed to be approximately
> 1000
> > miles by 1000 miles.
> >
> > > Sartar is absolutely tiny - it would fit into a couple of
> > > English counties.
> >
> > Yes, Sartar is small, but not that small. If you use the oldest
> > source---the board game---you will see that it measures
> approximately
> > 100 mile wide by 125 miles long.
>
> The maps I am working from is at
> http://www.glorantha.com/new/images/Lunar_Map_Final.jpg
>
> it is on the Issaries website
>
> and the map in Imperial Lunar Handbook 1
>
> and the map included in Dragon Pass, Land of Thunder.
>
> On the map of Sartar in Dragon Pass Land of Thunder Sartar is -
> from a line through Dangerford to the line through Roadend directly
> North South (probably technically beyond Sartar's borders as it
> belongs to Volsaxiland) is 12cm = 60 miles as the scale is 1cm to 5
> miles + 10% (errata) = 66 miles.
> from a line through Duck Point to a line through Jaldon's Rest
> directly East to West is 18cm = 90 miles as the scale is 1cm to 5
> miles + 10% errata = 99 miles.
>
> This makes Sartar approx. 66 miles by 99 miles. Compare this with
> Devon (English county) 69 miles by 65 miles, Ireland 300 by 200
> miles, Wales 150 miles by 110 miles, United Kingdom 600 by 400
> miles....see what I mean.
>
> Now to the Lunar Empire. In the map in Imperial Lunar Handbook 1 p16
> and the map on the website it is approximately 800 miles by 600
> miles. In the text (ILH1 p12) it says that the distance from Mirin's
> Cross to Glamour is 1000 miles - on the map it is more like 300 miles.
>
> Compare a Lunar empire of 800 miles by 600 miles with the following:
> Roman Empire at the time of Augustus was about 2700 miles by 1100
> miles, the Achaemenid Persian Empire of Xerxes was about 2900 miles
> by 1100 miles. France is about 600 miles by 600 miles.
>
> Hence the Lunar Empire is a lot more like France with Belgium thrown
> in than these ancient empires.
>
> Now look at the population of the Lunar Empire - from ILH1: 7 330 000
> including the provinces. Compare this with the Roman Empire: between
> 45 and 120 million depending on which estimates you use and the
> period you are talking about. The Seleukid Empire probably had a
> population around 25 million. 7 million is more like the population
> of Hellenistic Egypt.
>
> On geographical features look at the following (all ILH1):
> Oslir River as the crow flies 13 cm from source to delta = approx 470
> miles compared with the Nile at least 1200 miles just from Khartoum
> to the Delta as the crow flies or the Tigris - about 800 miles. Now
> think - the Oslir flows through most of the Lunar Empire. The Tigris
> flows through just part of the Persian Empire.
>
> The Hungry Plateau is 1.2 cm by 2cm or about 40 miles by 75 miles.
> Compare with the Eithiopian Highlands at around 700 miles by 1000
> miles.
>
> The Western Reaches which includes Spol, Bindle, Jhor and Worion (i.e
> Carmania) is only 5cm by 6cm = approx 180 miles by 220 miles. This is
> smaller than Ireland.
>
>
>
> >
> > > Also it is a bit hard to work out what landforms in Glorantha
> > > are supposed to look like at this scale. For example the Quivin
> > > Mountains in Dragon Pass take up an area of about 15 miles by 15
> > > miles at present. In comparison in England the Lake District is
> about
> > > 40 miles by 40 miles.
> >
> > The Quivin Peaks are about 20x25 miles.
> >
> > > Are the Quivin Mountains much lower than the
> > > fells of the Lake District
> >
>
> Again on the map Dragon Pass, Land of Thunder Quivin Mtns are no more
> than 4cm by 3cm i.e. absolute max 22 miles by 16.5 miles including
> the errata.
>
> > Skafell Peak (the highest point in England) is 3,210 feet above sea
> level.
> > The lowest parts of Sartar* are about 1,500 feet above sea level,
> the
> > highest peaks of Quivin probably double that.*
>
>
> Skafell is not a big mountain at 978 metres - nor for that matter is
> Snowdon at 1085 metres - you can walk up Snowdon. A big mountain is
> Mount Blanc at 4807 metres. See a picture of Scafell at
> http://www.english-lakes.com/scafell.html. On the other hand look on
> google for images of Mt Blanc - that's a snow capped mountain! But as
> I've said look at how much space these mountains take up on the map -
> their 'footprint' of even Scafell is much bigger.
>
>
> >
> > **/I think./* I'll go and dig out my maps and see if I can find my
> > "official" numbers.
> >
> > >or are they just an awful lot steeper?
> >
> > The areas on the Sartar map that are shown as mountains are always
> very
> > steep, virtually impossible to travel through except through
> designated
> > routes, and even those very difficult.
> >
> > > On
> > > the map in Dragon Pass there are quite a few peaks (more than
> 10) and
> > > several seem to be snow capped. Is this just artistic licence
> because
> > > there doesn't seem to be enough room to fit substantial
> mountains in
> > > this kind of area. Is there a reason why everying in Glorantha
> has to
> > > be so small now?
> >
> > Now? What source are you using for your scale?
> >
> > > In the past (e.g. in 'A Rough Guide to Glamour') the
> > > Lunar Empire was a fair bit bigger. I notice that the scale of
> the
> > > Dragon Pass map has now been increased by 10%. Is there any
> chance
> > > the Lunar Empire will be rescaled or are we stuck with the
> current
> > > size?
> >
> > Ah, this is from the Map of the Lunar Empire? Holy mackerel! I had
> no
> > idea it was so far off.
> > It ought to be about 1000 miles wide, from the Esel to the Arcos
> rivers.
> >
> > --GS
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
