Bastis is a fun place. Probably the one of the places where the Trader Princes have drifted into holding into full on feudal lordship. The continued (and increased) revenues from the Haranda trade are probably to blame.
> > True enough. However, the Ashara Church (such as it is) is
> > extremely pragmatic and has a fairly simplistic theology compared
> > to most other churches. And yes, I agree. It is a depiction of
> > something that happened. I'm not going to go all pronounce-y and
> > say what because that would take the fun out of it.
>
> I was allowing for more theology than you. I was assuming Caselein was influenced by either Henotheism or Stygianism, which both blend divine & essential world-views with a bit of theological explication (I think).
>
I'm a bit on the pragmatic side with my writing, I fear. I don't think that Caselain could have avoided influences of that sort as they are endemic to the Safelester basin where he grew up. Probably the former rather than the latter. I think that the Stygian Church was still a bit of a boogyman after it was "destroyed root and branch" several centuries previous. Considering the syncretic nature of the Ashara Church and Saint Caselain's actions during the Great Trek, he probably leaned in the direction of Henotheism.
I'm not sure of the early history of that church or what really went on in the Safelester basin around the time of the Closing. In Wenelia, he's "The wise man from far away who helped make things better".
> > But your point about rejecting Godlearner ways is quite apt - the
> > Trader Princes tend to adopt and propitiate nearby spirits and gods
> > as well as any surviving essences or saints into the local version
> > of the catechism. The Trader Princes are big fans of "this works
> > for us" and tend, I think, to let the big philosophical questions
> > slide. I was tempted to consider them a HQ1 Common religion but
> > that just didn't seem to fit right either.
>
> I realize this is a setting list and not a mechanics list, but I'll be interested to see how HQ2 deals with more blended religions like the Church of Ashara (IMO just having Kolat doesn't really make you blended). Unfortunately, to do that properly I'll want to see how they do animist and monotheistic societies first, and that may take a while. (BTW, this is an acceptance of reality, not a complaint!)
>
I'm not sure mechanistically myself. I suspect that I will be revisiting Trader Princes with an eye to HQ2 at some point. I suspect that much of the Ashara Church is really community or communal worship of local spirits, saints, and gods with a the usual specialists who dedicate themselves to a particularly useful entity. However, since it is a community, the worship of all members, regardless of their magical predispositions, is useful.
> Agreed. IMG, arrogance is the sin of dismissing negotiation. You don't need to discuss and compromise because you already know what is the correct act. Such a stance is fundamentally against Ashara, and it leads to a willingness to deal in Bad Faith. And as we all know, there are few worse sins for an Asharan than dealing in bad faith.
>
> I wonder what strains The Opening and the coming Hero Wars will put on the Trader Princes' relationship with their Church. It's possible different Trader Princes start trying to push bishops with significantly different religious beliefs, or if a Church leader tries to establish an independent power base from the Trader Princes. Ooo... I'm now imagine the Gottis being thrown out of Dizbos and a Asharan theocracy established. Such a thing would end very badly but be a very interesting campaign idea.
>
Yes. I really should find my notes on Niccolo the Manipulator who is sort of the flip side of Saint Caselain. Some embrace him as the doer of the necessary but they may just be deluding themselves. Every culture has its own evils. Prince Barthol, of course, is a firm believer in Niccolo.
The problem with Dizbos is that it is in a war zone. I am not sure how the Ashara Church would thrive there until Graymane is dealt with and the border war between the Western Barbarians and the Holy Country is put to an end...
..which might require the founding of an Azharan state. (I think we just "Passed Go" please Collect 200 Falangian Diamonds)
> > Yes, very true. Caselain was too busy just trying to help his
> > people survive in a post-apocalyptic world - just as Ashara
> > intended when It chose him as Its agent. Founding a Church and what
> > is tantamount to a new culture were side effects. Heck, I don't
> > know if Falangian diamonds even exist anymore. The Iron Stag is
> > probably the title of some Pralorian warlord. The Pralori make
> > great inroads after the Closing and recovered much of their
> > pre-Dawn strength.
>
> None of that occurred to me. Thanks!
If you have enough smoking rubble lying around, you can build entire houses from it. Wenelia certainly has a lot of the former.
> > The Trader Princes are a pragmatic lot. That's a strength and a
> > very great weakness as they tend to lack a certain depth. At
> > least, that's my take on them.
>
> And that's the story of most groups in Wenelia. Syncretism and magical pluralism will let the groups survive, but they'll probably never achieve the raw magical power displayed in Dragon Pass by the Orlanthi there (or the Lunars, or Praxians, etc).
>
> Nick
>
True. And the big kicker? No king or kingdom magic. Or at least, damned little aside from the Trader Princes and whatever Graymane has. I don't think they've ever had any, really. Not like the heavy duty kingship magic you find in elsewhere. This is probably a key factor in keeping Wenelia a political and cultural backwater.
Jeff
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