Re: Teshnos in HW: Glorantha and HQ Voices

From: Santo Sengupta <s.santo.sengupta_at_7W1HFV7FtydYHeWl31EvBvtl3gFgfjhGHS1keCQf5Oxblyac178NKP_tLRT>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:54:44 -0500


Whew! A long list. Here is my commentary

>
> 1. Teshnos general landscape. There seem be two different visions. Teshnos
> as a forested savanna (broken canopy, grasses) and Teshnos as a place where
> no place is more than a half mile from "unbroken jungle" and"half lost
> in jungle." I guess those two are not necessarily in conflict, but it seems
> that they are. In both cases, the east is dense Fethlon jungle and the
> mountains lose the trees, so there is enough variety of Simla and Angkor to
> both be there.
>

There's also a third view, in which Teshnos is heavily urbanized. I mostly use real world analogies to what India is like (being originally from there and having visited many times). Teshnos abounds with human settlements, but they are mostly near their great river systems. Going further away leads to being engulfed in the jungle, which in Teshnos is rather spiritually active and prone to overtaking human settlements without proper precautions. (The sacred Slash and Burn ceremonies of Calyz, for instance.).

> 2. HQ Voices has the speaker (a shop/store/emporium owner) mention his
> third wife. Is this an indication of polygamy or that he has had three
> wives? I didn't see any other info on polygamy, but its presence is alright.
> Just wasn't clear to me.
>
> Both polygamy and polyandry are practices in Teshnos, but as in most
cultures, men having multiple wives is a bit more common. I believe it would be a caste related issue - certainly Morning Caste would probably not have such things, but well to do Noon Caste, and certainly Evening Caste.  Additionally, there may be marriages that carry over from previous Life Flames.

> 3. This guy seems like he handles wealth, and anyone who could spend money
> in the way he describes what leisure time activities there are (a GREAT
> paragraph) handles wealth too.. But there's also the idea that first level
> teaching folks don't handle money and turn it all over to priests. That
> seems in conflict.
>

I always presumed the guy was Merchant Caste, and thus privy to the second teaching.

> 4. The HW: Glorantha map doesn't have the cities on it that Genertela:
> Crucible of the Hero Wars did (like Gio or Dombain, unless I missed them)
> and does have Lur Nop in Teshnos. Rivers don't have names. I can make them
> up, but I wonder why they don't. Genertela: CotHW had population figures,
> but those have been tossed out in general.
>

Lur Nop was a printing error in Teshnos. The documented cities are: Zanozar - centrally located, home to the Soul Furnace and the palace of the Zitrs
Dombain - South/central coastal, biggest trading port. Gio - Western.

The provinces of Matkondu in the north and Thokistan in the west have been identified, but no cities have been mentioned. In my 3rd Age game, I discovered a lot of new places.
Neelampur, the City of Sapphires - located in the south east, this coastal city has a brisk trade from Kralorela
Balisore

Mahesomashpuram
Ratnashap

> 5. The teachings of Chal are key to society. There are at least 32 verses
> in the Book of Well-Being. Are the verses spelled out anywhere? I can make
> them up, though.
>
> Nope, they are not. I'd recommend taking a peek at
http://www.sacred-texts.com and looking at the Rg Veda and the Upanishads.  Sacred Fire FTW.

> 6. Babadi - I thought the local dwarfs were Octomonist and avoid trade with
> surface folks? I guess I didn't understand the locals or Octomonism, or this
> has changed? As an aside, I'm sort of tired of some much tech being from
> dwarfs. But that's not a gripe with the Teshnos writeup.
>

Yes the local dwarves are Octomonists, and are possibly made from a different clay from "standard" Genertelan dwarves. They reject Iron and Diamonds, but still produce great works from the other 8 minerals. I always viewed Babadi "tech" being more mystical than say gear related - giant prayer wheels, solar reflecting mirrors, enchanted devices to make music and writing easier, and so on.

The Teshnans seem to have long standing traditions with dealing equitably with their Dwarves and Elves, and most likely have some Small Gods that provide such magics to them.

> 7. Kab Tolat Solf - the Solf folks seem crazily degenerate, but here is
> Solf in the name of a warrior god? I'm lost. And is this the same Tolat as
> that of the Amazons? Lost again.
>

Kab Tolat Solf is the Red Destroying Planet, which is the same celestial body the Marazi amazon's worship. In the West, the same planet is called Shargash, the destroyer, and is a son of Yelm. Same planet, somewhat different mythologies and approaches in worship.

The Five Fiery Forms have many different shapes and incarnations. There are many "X Y Z Solfs" that are all viewed as part of the great deity Solf.  Similarly, the various phases of Somash (Morning, Afternoon, Evening, etc) are all different masks of Somash.

> 8, Melib is visible from the mainland - it looks pretty far away on the
> maps. If it is still visible, then visible distances on the sea are very
> big. I know Glorantha is flat, but are the map distances obsolete?
>

Why would you want to look in the direction of that Devil and Demon haunted island? South is considered an inauspicious direction. Don't look there.  The zitr said so.

> 9. Somash seems to be given a lot of aspects and attention from lots of
> different folks and Calyz demoted from the everyman's god to something less
> and Grandfather Mortal, maybe. Just a change, it seems, not a gripe, but I
> guess I liked it the other way. Maybe I never understood it.
>

Each of the Fiery Forms have different caste worshippers.

Somash is mostly followed the Nobles, Calyz by Commoners, Zitro Argon by ascetics, Furalor by widows/mourners, and Solf by those who want to transgress social mores. Even though it may *seem* that one god is demoted over another, the teaching of the Five Fiery Forms states that they are all part of the same Celestial Fire, regardless of our limited understanding of them. It may take one many lifetimes to make that realization, but eventually, one will.

Yay, mysticism.

>
> 10. Chal: p. 41 of HQ Voices: "Chal the Wise, blessed of Great Somash-He is
> Life!-brought order to Teshnos after the evil of Sheng Seleris. He taught us
> the Truth of the world." But in other places, Chal predates Sheng and Sheng
> (for reasons probably written somewhere I haven't read or understood) wipes
> out other paths to enlightenment. Is it just that Chal's *teachings* brought
> order? Or that Chal came back, or is always reincarnated?
>

I used this line to indicate a modern reincarnation of Chal. Again, paralleling Indian religious tradition, I cannot count how many gurus have claimed to be reincarnations of even more famous gurus or deities from antiquity. It's part of the culture.

> 11. "Slaves are forbidden" in HQ Voices - just in temple ceremonies, or is
> that meant to say that slavery is against Teshnan culture. I'm guessing
> slavery is OK, since we hear mention of Goonda chain gangs.
>

Goondas are not humans. They are monkeys that make trouble, and need to be disciplined so they can be eventually receive the gift of human rebirth. If you unchain them, they'll run amok and steal all your liquor and run off with your valuables!

> 12. Goonda sound cool. I think my crew and I would make them less drunks
> and less in chain gangs and more like King Louis or the baboons in Prax (at
> least the ones I saw in River of Cradles and Temple of Feroda). I cannot
> remember.
>

Goondas are awesome, and you can do with them whatever you will. I suspect there may be cultural differences in different parts of Teshnos on how to treat them, and how they act. Look up Vanaras on wikipedia for good ideas.

> 13. The elephant picture is very cool. That colossal beast is way bigger
> than normal elephants (especially the ones which live in jungles), but it's
> a fantasy world.
>

Elephants are a big deal in Teshnos, and their Goddess is as well.

> 14. Thoskali - are these bat Hsunchen? A new bunch of folks outside the
> caste system that I missed? I think I have read that name before... I do
> like the day and night bat people who don't like each other.
>

They are un-Flamed hunters that live at the edge of the fever jungles. Yes, they are outside of the Caste System, and probably practice animism similar to some of the things found in Prax. Not a big emphasis on herd animals, but Brother Dog, Foundchild, Wildfire, and the like.

> 15.. The idea of Teshnans inheriting all possessions, debts,marriage
> partners, and criminal guilt from past lives just seems like a big problem
> socially (maybe it isn't and maybe the authors know of real societies like
> this) but I'd toss it right away in a game. Or maybe that was just a way to
> say inherited karma or something. But I'd just toss it.
>

 It is a very complicated system, and I basically ignored it unless it made for good stories. Note that most people cannot tell who they were in a previous life-flame - it takes someone with a great amount of insight and magic. In my game, I only had Zitrs / illuminates be able to receive this information, and there were only about a dozen left in the game.. and by the end of it, there were none. The Time of No Zitrs was the best.

> Anything else I don't like has been in the writeups forever and is just
> something I'd toss (mainly Harstar).
>

I *love* Harstar personally, though my players grew to loathe him for his meddling in their plans, and his willingness to play the worst traits of the Gachi and Ashurtans against each other.

> I like the idea of Teshnos as a setting as a sort of India and Vedic Hindu
> type setting and lots of what is out there is great.
>

As do I. Good luck exploring!

-S

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