Re: Why is Kargzant a Spirit?

From: Greg Stafford <glorantha1_at_ZIf4xXv5vn0k4ZgHLLOWFKOamhshZLDyiaHJm87OgemribsWjrSOgJbYvWSZrNTu6>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:43:03 -0800


YGWV On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Nick the Nevermet < nick.the.nevermet_at__tzMwj4bBG0xy5CPvF5Cd3NEImzXpPPFE7FymqtpLatFlNTZco_b6tPJj-0f1zcxdWM-hTwzHEO6stf680nmov6Mvho.yahoo.invalid> wrote:

> wrote:
>

> > First, they do not need to explain it, because it just simply is.
> > But they do: just like Orlanth, they were once beings of the Court,
> > or could have been, but they changed themselves so much that they
> > could not fit--they had to be rejected, or even forced themselves
> > out through their surliness.
>
> Gotcha. I knew Kargzant was one of the Rebel Gods who killed Murharzarm
> according to GRoY,

The list is pretty large if everyone is in on it. :-) Some are blamed for it.
Some take credit.

> but it never occurred to me that from a certain DH perspective Kargzant's
> spiritual nature was a rejection or rebellion of Yelm's legitimate
> authority. Thanks.
>

It is what the DH say, mind you.
If you look carefully, most of the bodies of myth have a note mentioning such a thing, blaming it on some aberrant practice of true people (as in the west) and so on.

> > You can be sure that many of the
> > early myths about Shargash bashing these guys and those guys are
> > about the war against essences and spirits.
>
> Yeah, Shargash 'sent him away', which I assume meant that Kargzant was
> killed and sent to the underworld, since Kargzant is sent from the
> underworld by Yelm to collect the shredded remains of the world after
> Shargash destroys it.
>

Yes, so you see to look at it as part of the "War Against Spirits" has some logical outsider sense (Godlearner!!) but the war is made up of many many such (otherwise unrelated) incidents.
I am sure that someone will discover the lost Jrustelan word poem *Invasion of the Bamatites*, aka "War of the Spirits," in verses "to sink a galley with their weight." The proof I see there is a long and grinding impact of the worlds.

> The enemies of the
> > state lives in "strongholds" around and outside the Solar Empire.
>
> Which for Kargzant was Nivorah for a little while before it was destroyed,
> right? Though I'm not quite clear how Nivorah went from being the city of
> Reladivus to the city of Kargzant, who was hardly a power of serenity.
>

Anyone?

>
> > > I also realize that Pentans and the Dara Happans likely have
> > > different understandings of this.
> > >
> >
> > Yes. Not exactly diametrically opposed, but similarly opposite.
>
> Cool, so from the Pentant POV, Yelm tried to make Kargzant into an obedient
> subject, and Kargzant wasn't having it.

When the world was made all was free and easy, with plenty for everyone. If we needed something, we went to where it was. The Big Chief knew who to name to lead every task.
The Stone People succumbed to their natural laziness. Big Chief and the Big Wife, and all the other leaders too, tried to convince them to be right. Their houses were not right. "We are the Stone people," they said, "We don't move." They are evil--they took stones and ground them up to be dirt, and in the dirt were seeds. They grew things for themselves. Then they took tools for food and made them weapons to kill us.

> I wonder how they tell the tale about Kargzant vs. Shargash,

They had many champions, with bow and spear and long knife and axe. Big Chief sent War chief, who defeated every one of them. But War Chief's death and mutilation made Big Chief weep, and he retired forever. Great Chief was selected to be next. He cleared the sky of foes, swept the earth clean. Only one foe stood: the Grinder. He killed War Chief and ate him. Great Chief told his wife this: stay here until I return, then make the "Cry for the Returning Hero," and prepare a purification ceremony for me. Do not touch me when I return until after the ceremony and I will destroy the Grinder and we will rule again in peace.

> and whether it would end up with Kargzant also going to the underworld.

Great Chief fought against the Grinder, and he took out the starlight and wounded him so badly he died after he ate Great Chief. The Kind Ones nibbled he body and soul to nothing, and bore the pieces to Spider. She put together Grinder, and then Great Chief climbed out from inside, as part of the healing. He wasn't bound by Spider's net that held everyone else, and he led the way to an escape, just like his escape from the broken Grinder.

It certainly wouldn't have him being sent back to the surface by Yelm.
>

Some small animals ran before him, chased by Dog, so when he appeared all the world hailed the great leader. He went to his wife for purification, but she was so happy to see him she held him close, and this broke the ceremony that would have kept them as rulers.

-- 
Greg Stafford
Game Designer


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