So you weren't asking about the great year-end ritual at all. You were asking "what do they do when they want to do a ritual for that category"? (And you weren't asking about a culture, you're asking about "animists" which - depending on the rule system we are using - may not be a meaningful distinction for purposes of rules.)
Personally, I don't think it's a useful category except possibly in a "preparing to go to war with an evil spirit" aspect. I'm not sure how you would get there, but I am sure a story can be constructed where the situation is the spirit isn't manifest and they must go to it for some reason.
I don't think there is anything meaningful about the idea that placation is "active" magic by some sort of definition. Depending on the narrative at the time, any of these can be active or benefit or whatever. The rules don't need classifying of magics that way (as I've argued before) and it is an extremely rules-centered approach to the problem. If that's the specific issue (what rules to apply) we should probably move it over to the rules list. If the question is "what ritual do they do for this kind of thing", I say it depends on the culture in question. It sounds like some kind of ritual where you arm yourself with the best weapons against the foe. Something very specific.
> > Why not?
>
> Mainly game balance.
>
In HQ2 it seems. Game balance in HQ2 is pretty easy since it is done through narrative constraint.
> A lingering benefit can be as big as +9, which says to me that the
> benefit ought to be narrow.
>
Why? There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that supports that.
> And since (in this particular speculative avenue) it was a benefit
> from a good spirit, there is no natural limitation of helping only
> against manifestations of some particular type of evil spirit
> (normally -- I can construct a case where that would be true).
>
So the players specifically do a ritual to gain a benefit from the Good Spirit, and gain a +9 lingering bonus to future uses of that good spirit. That seems completely normal in the rules, I am not seeing the problem. Plus, the first time they use the benefit and lose, it goes away. Not a real problem game balance wise.
> > Why not?
>
> If so, that would be a different thing. You would be creating a charm
> or a medicine bundle that works for the holder instead of carrying out
> a ritual that works for the entire community.
>
So if this is for the community it goes to the wyter and maybe goes to the wyter's magic rating. Or you get charms for the whole community because that's what the ritual does. Again, I am not seeing the problem.
>
> > Treat it the other way around (rather like having the tools for a
> skill you posess).
> > An animist who failed to participate in the appropriate annual rites
> is treated with
> > suspicion by the spirits of the tradition and suffers as penalty in
> all their dealings
> > with such spirits, until such time as they can perform suitable
> restitution.
>
> That is certainly a possibility. The downside to it is that it means
> players will always make it happen off-screen, because it is
> uninteresting to play out.
>
Then when this one is narratively important, play it on screen. The same actions don't always result in the same mechanical results in this system, so it doesn't matter.
>
> > This is a bit rulesy in approach.
>
> A fair point. I am trying to encapsulate -- within the HQ rules --
> several types of common animist rituals that players and narrators can
> use easily. There will always be more.
>
So this really should go to the rules list.
>
> > Why not look at RW animist big annual rituals (like say the Sun
> Dance) and see what they aim to do?
>
> A very fine suggestion. I'll do some research on that one.
>
> > > But then I was thinking that theists kind of do this. They dress up
> > > in fancy clothes and go re-enact the whole "beat up the bad guy"
> > > ritual during sacred time or whatever.
> >
> > And just because theists do this, means that animists can't?
>
> No, but I'm looking for an animist's particular take on it, if there
> is one. As you might be suggesting, there may not be a particular
> animist take on this. My sense of the theist ritual is that the power
> comes from being the good guy -- the fact that the bad guy is beaten
> is a feature of the good guy. For animists, my sense is that the power
> from the ritual is focused around the bad guy. The ritual participants
> can later use the fact that they beat up Mallia, not the fact that
> Orlanth beat Mallia. (I don;t know that he did, but you know what I mean.)
>
Again, I am deeply suspicious that you can say "Theists do this" and "Animists do this" when it comes to ritual in any meaningful way in Glorantha. There are at least two major streams of Theism in Glorantha - the Yelmites and the Orlanthi, and while we can argue they've interacted so often their rituals look the same, I'm not sure that's true. While I suspect all the tribes of Prax share similar structure to their rituals, I have no particular reason to believe other animists have the same exact approach. Thus emphasizing "animists would focus on the bad guy" seems weird to me. And what about things like the Summons of Evil? There's some focusing of the power on the bad guy there.
If you want the culture in your game to do a ritual to focus on arming themselves against the evil spirit they know is coming, I see no reason why they wouldn't have one. It seems like one of the standards all cultures would have. If you specifically want rules for it, decide what is narratively important - does it give them a new power? Is it a source of charms for the tribe/clan/herd? Is it a lingering benefit for later? Is it a lingering penalty to the opposition? Any could apply, depending on your narrative needs. Personally, if it is a standard ritual done every year then I see it as only relevant if something special happened this year or the story is going to be focused on in some way.
>
> > If they were confronting the full power of the big evil spirits then
> > they can't but they are not, just as the theists are not.
>
> Hmm. So maybe some sort of ritual where you summon a small disease
> spirit and defeat it, thus sending the "don't mess with us" message to
> Mallia? I think I've made that sounds unduly crass, but it does carry
> the ritual within a personal relationship. Another way to dress it up
> is that you symbolically defeat disease, thus heightening your
> community's already existing anti-disease capabilities (things like
> heightened vigilance, etc.).
>
That's a possibility. I would say that doing the "we beat up your disease spirit, don't mess with us" ritual means you can't propitiate Mallia for a while. You've challenged her. IT's a choice of what relationship to take, and sets the tone for how your relationships with certain spirits continue for the near future. Some may appreciate the approach, others may not.
>
>
> I'm sure that this is true. I think the part that I am struggling with
> is exactly how beating up on small disease spirits makes Mallia leave
> you alone. I guess if you succeed, she got the message that you are
> strong and she should leave you alone. If you fail, then she calls
> your bluff.
>
Exactly. Which is why some prefer to propitiate, and some intimidate. And it doesn't always work out.
LC
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