Re: How does veneration work?

From: Nick the Nevermet <nick.the.nevermet_at_qWlJmg-QG-6mU_SaownOlp6CMDViUOPSvvuw1qP1uO8WpAVfy3m70GVrU7>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 06:07:01 -0000

> Yes, gnostic is the word that springs to mind, but only
> applicable if it is, in fact, gnostic.
> Analogies to real world religious/spiritual traditions are
> complex. There certainly are parts of the Western tradition that
> are gnostic, but not all. It seems likely that Hrestoli Joy of the
> Heart might be a gnostic tradition, requiring the direct personal
> experience of Joy, and Irensavalism certainly has strong
> similarities to real word gnostic traditions (up to specifics such
> as use of the word demiurge).

I definitely agree Irensavalism is pretty Gnostic in its feel, and that Joy is a necessary element of that. However, I don't think that Joy, by itself, is particularly Gnostic. I've seen Joy described on this list as a state of grace where one experiences the Divine. If one wants Christian analogues, one can find it in a lot of traditions, as it would very quickly get tied up in anything the Holy Ghost does. Something akin to gnosis would be a sub-category of Joy certain churches would promote.

I had a lot of other stuff to say, but then I realized it amounted to an "I agree," so I deleted it. In short, I think that Solace is associated with what you've been referring to as epistemological: a knowable law associated with actions humans are capable of which will result in salvation. Joy, on the other hand, goes beyond that, and is a state of grace where one experiences the divine. Veneration seems like it might be "Joy Lite," something akin to Joy that even Solace only western religions (Rokari, Atroxi, etc.) would include, but in HIGHLY ritualized forms. Joy's entire point is it goes beyond human formalization.

Nick