Re: How does veneration work?

From: julianlord <julian.lord_at_-LHkwxz8hIQ2QBeIAarVkUez_4UYpPRrnY2ACeCR7A9A8nRh5FOzTOQxFlkqrRjH>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:36:40 -0000


Just a couple of minor quibbles that I'd like to express...

Jeff :

> Here's another way of thinking about it, to the Malkioni philosophers such as Socrates or Aristotle would be saints. They do not directly provide any magic ("Socrates give me strength!") but they show (through deeds, speeches, or writings) how to understand the workings of the Invisible God, and therefore sorcery. Certain Malkioni sects (but not all!) honor their saints, giving them the respect such holy individuals are due.

> > The olde christian distinction - worship flows through the saints to God
> > - isn't really helpful.
>
> I agree.

Erm, that's not contemporary theology, the only kind of exceptions being those saints that are angels (because they come from God in the first place, instead of ever having been people), and Saint Mary from one point of view (mainly because she carried the Godhood inside her during her pregnancy).

Contemporary theology concerning saints is pretty much exactly as in your description of how Socrates or Aristotle could be imagined as saints, even to the extent that there have been numerous campaigns over the centuries to have them formally recognised as saints of the Church !!! :)

And in christianity, worshipping God is always direct, never via intermediaries -- even the angelic saints and Saint Mary are venerated, not worshipped.

The essential differences between christian saints and malkioni ones, are that magic is involved in Glorantha ; and that Malkionism doesn't suggest that all of the living and the dead who strongly manifest faith in God are saints, as the contemporary RW theology does... Malkioni sainthood is a status that not every faithful will attain, but it's a more privileged and unique status instead.

---

... aaand NOT a quibble :


> The veneration of holy teachers is considered heretical by the Rokari school of Malkionism (as the God Learners proved that it is only a short step from veneration of teachers to worship of the Eranaschula and other entities).
>
> However, it is not saint veneration that really upsets the Rokari - it is the spiritual pollution of Hrestol who defied and rejected the Laws of Malkion. The many crimes and horrors committed by the God Learners (who followed Hrestol's way) are proof of the evils of Hrestolism.
hmmm, all of that was actually in the foundations of my too short-lived Seshnelan campaign in the 1990s :) Julian Lord

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